Maher's Digital World

Assalamu Alaikum brothers & sisters

Hello everyone

My name is Majed Alasmari

Born in 1983 in Jeddah in so-called "Kingdom of Saudi Arabia" which occupies most of the Arabian peninsula. I do not recognize this evil regime even though I still carry it's citizenship, because it has utilized an unauthentic Islam:
- to oppress me and Muslims in & out of the country.
- to waste resources on royals, hypocrites, and the west.
- to keep the true religion of Salam (peace) & Justice apart from practice & propagation.

Who made all this possible?
In short, it was Britain's deed, the Arab sheikhs it implanted, and thousands of hypocrites and others that were fooled by Abdulaziz that he had good intent.

My story in short is: I've been against this regime and all others in the Arab world most of my life because there are no human rights, justice, and no value to life if one dares to defy.
The true beginning of my activism started in 2013 in Egypt and that didn't go well.
I was lucky not to die in Raba'a Square massacre in which the Police & Military shot & injured me.
Returning later to Jeddah, I posted a number of youtube videos discussing reform which  got me into Dhahban political prison for 2.5 years. Precious time from my life taken away because of practicing a basic human right with the excuse that what I did was against Islam.

The truth of the matter is that the religion & laws implemented in my country are a concoction far from the mercy of Islam.

Nowadays, I live away from the evil Saudis where I can practice my freedom of expression as I like.

This is me on twitter:
https://twitter.com/MajedAlasmariAP

And on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxu8wwX19VFC-2ZNoEbd1BQ

For the time being, the content is all in Arabic.

My dream is that we all live in peace & freedom as we were created to strive for that goal for us & others.

Peace

Well, it is brave of you to challenge the regime.
I'll prepare an answer later.

I strongly sympathize with your stand against the brutal dictatorship that governs Saudi Arabia. Once again, as we have seen so often in history, they impose their version of religion (Islam in this case) for no other reason than to keep themselves in power. It is no different that [for example] the Spanish Inquisition - just change the religion from Islam to Catholic.

When you were at Raba Square, were you protesting against Hosni Mubarak or did you belong to the Muslim Brotherhood? Be that as it may, just remember -- one enemy at a time :)

Where are you living now? Obviously not in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and let alone Yemen.

BTW - at least you trim your beard :)

I lived in Egypt after the revolution, during Mohammad Mursi's democratic rule, and after the military coup which is to this day still destroying the lives of the people of Egypt.
I had a small business, everything was going well. People were living free of any kind of oppression during the rule of the MB president Mursi.
Then came the coup, when he was detained by the Republican Guard, his supporters staged a large protest outside the base where he was being held. During the afternoon prayer (Asr), the republican guard shot and killed many of the worshipers. The sum of protesters killed was more than 50. I was watching on TV and YouTube during all this bloodshed and it wasn't my cause to reinstate a kidnapped president who I didn't elect as I was a foreigner.
Then came the second massacre which occurred close to the Raba'a sit-in.
The number of protesters killed was around a hundred.
As a Muslim who doesn't belong to any group other than greater Islam, and as a human-being that cannot stand the injustice of innocent people killed for no other reason then political greed in power, I chose on my own freewill to join the people in Raba'a square on August 2, 2013 against the bloodshed and monstrosities being committed by the security forces against peaceful unarmed civilians for no other reason then saying "NO" to secular extremism that overthrew the first president of Egypt to be elected in a free and fair election.
I was there and witnessed some of the most beautiful peaceful men & women & childern that occupied Raba'a who were of all political affiliations. Even though lots of them were Mb, Salafi's and independent Muslim Egyptians, there were also Christians and foreigners from Europe and elsewhere also witnessing that historic event that ended tragically.
There were absolutely no guns inside the sit-in.
I was surprised that tear-gas is not so bad in the eyes as it is in suffocating and the burning sensation in the skin. It's sad and disgusting to see small children and babies  feel what I felt. Not being able to breath because of that evil chemical that should be banned is quite a horrible feeling, imaging the kids and babies that felt the same.
Since being shot numerous times with the smaller shot-gun pellets and two large ones in my back, I've seen X-Ray images of my abdomen that look quite funny.
One of them resides by my right eye.
The large-sized pellets which are lethal, one I had removed in Egypt and the other in the prison hospital in Jeddah.
My injuries compared to the hundreds of dead & others graver injuries are child's play.
What happened on August 14, 2013 should not be justified under any circumstances.
It wasn't my fight BTW as you said "one enemy at a time"  and I  had no activity against the Saudi government in Egypt, but it was a beginning that killed the fear inside me of speaking out against injustice.

I'm now living in safety where I can practice my rights as any other human should in a place other then the ones you mentioned.

Well, I’m going to answer you, aa1234779.

As far as Saudi Arabia is concerned, you say: “I do not recognize this evil regime even though I still carry it's citizenship, because it has utilized an unauthentic Islam:
- to oppress me and Muslims in & out of the country.
- to waste resources on royals, hypocrites, and the west.
- to keep the true religion of Salam (peace) & Justice apart from practice & propagation.”

1st point: Does Saudi Arabia want to oppress Muslims, or more likely, Is it not oppressing Muslims by imposing the strict rules of Islam â€" to gain the consent of a small minority of hard liners?
You probably know the Kaaba, the big cube at the center of the grand mosque of Mecca. And even more likely, you remember the Grand Mosque seizure that occurred during November and December 1979 when insurgents calling for the overthrow of the House of Saud took over Masjid al-Haram in Mecca.
It’s only the then that the Saudi King Khaled implemented a stricter enforcement of Shariah and gave the ulama and religious conservatives more power over the next decade, and religious police became more assertive.

2nd point: Saudi Arabia is highly dependent on oil. And its citizens benefit from grants. For instance, King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud has ordered the government to pay out 1,000 riyals (about $266) to state employees each month in 2018. And it’s true that the KSA has enjoyed friendly relations with the West, especially the United States, and the wave of arrests in 2017 demonstrates ruthlessness of crown prince.
But chances are all this won’t last: oil resources are dwindling.

3d point: So you think it’s not possible to practice a “true Islam” in Saudi Arabia?
But is it possible to practice a religion that is 1500 years old? Concerning Islam, the answer is no according to the scholar and author Majid oukacha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNnBuwIiv-M
By the way, if we read the old testament or the Koran, we can see that eating pork is not allowed.
But there is nothing about processed food, because at that time, there was neither Mc Chicken, nor Pepsi. And if they are unhealthy, are they “halal”?

Other quotes: “Then came the second massacre which occurred close to the Raba'a sit-in.
The number of protesters killed was around a hundred.” Allegedly, the number of casualties was close to 600.

“I lived in Egypt after the revolution.” I'm now living in safety where I can practice my rights”
So you don’t live in Saudi Arabia, nor in Egypt. You are probably living in a country with a properly functioning democracy, where Muslims are free to criticize the religion. Maybe you chose another “declared Islamic State”, like Mauritania, Yemen, Iran, Pakistan or Afganistan. If you chose a country where Islam is only a State religion, you had a wide choice too, Morocco, Iraq, Somalia, the UAE...

aa1234779 -> Can you tell us where you're living now, or must you keep that a secret for your safety and that of your family? Also, you stated you still have Saudi citizenship. If you needed to [for example] renew your passport, do you believe they might cut you into little pieces once you walk into their consulate. This is a serious question, not a joke.

How strong was Mohamed Mursi's relationship with the Islamic Brotherhood? I ask because these people, from what I've been hearing, were militant Islamists who forcibly wanted to impose their version of Islam, going so far as to harass Egypt's Coptic Christian minority. If indeed this is true then they are no different than the Saudi royal family.

Please clarify what you mean by "secular extremism". Before I say I agree or disagree, I want to be sure we're on the same page. As I recall last time we had a misunderstanding on this issue and I'd like to prevent another one.

Quote from: scarface on December 22, 2018, 01:32 AM

1st point: Does Saudi Arabia want to oppress Muslims, or more likely, Is it not oppressing Muslims by imposing the strict rules of Islam â€" to gain the consent of a small minority of hard liners?
You probably know the Kaaba, the big cube at the center of the grand mosque of Mecca. And even more likely, you remember the Grand Mosque seizure that occurred during November and December 1979 when insurgents calling for the overthrow of the House of Saud took over Masjid al-Haram in Mecca.
It’s only the then that the Saudi King Khaled implemented a stricter enforcement of Shariah and gave the ulama and religious conservatives more power over the next decade, and religious police became more assertive.

The Saudi government utilizes Islam as a tool of oppression. They do not implement the freedom, dignity, and justice of Islam.
What good is in that? People pray in Mosques. The podiums of Mosques are used to tell people to "obey" the ruler even if he whips your back, takes your money, or does anything he wants. You must obey.
The words of the Prophet peace be upon him says: If you die defending your land, your family, your belongings, or your religion you will are a martyr.
He also says: The best form of Jihad is a word of righteousness in the presence of a tyrant.
and also: The best of martyrs is Hamza (his uncle) and a man who stands in-front of an unjust ruler, and commands him, and forbids him, and is killed by him. (rough translation from memory)
Islam is a religion of peace, freedom, dignity, honor, and most importantly justice.
When Islam is suppressed and Muslims are oppressed, people deviate from the path, turning to violence as you pointed in the Meccan revolution that failed in 1979.

Quote2nd point: Saudi Arabia is highly dependent on oil. And its citizens benefit from grants. For instance, King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud has ordered the government to pay out 1,000 riyals (about $266) to state employees each month in 2018. And it’s true that the KSA has enjoyed friendly relations with the West, especially the United States, and the wave of arrests in 2017 demonstrates ruthlessness of crown prince.
But chances are all this won’t last: oil resources are dwindling.

Yes, the government gives subsidies to citizens, but in turn take it and lots more from their salaries as electricity bills have risen more than %350, gas prices have been hiked, everything nowadays is taxed. All which are clear violations of Islam.
Taxation is something that is considered Kufr, probably translated to infidelity in English.
This has nothing to do with oil resources dwindling.
The Clown Prince is Trump's guy. He's been paid well. If he doesn't stand with the Clown Prince to the end, he'll be in a huge problem, hence, blackmail.

Quote3d point: So you think it’s not possible to practice a “true Islam” in Saudi Arabia?
But is it possible to practice a religion that is 1500 years old? Concerning Islam, the answer is no according to the scholar and author Majid oukacha: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNnBuwIiv-M
By the way, if we read the old testament or the Koran, we can see that eating pork is not allowed.
But there is nothing about processed food, because at that time, there was neither Mc Chicken, nor Pepsi. And if they are unhealthy, are they “halal”?

It's possible to practice it in Europe or the US, UK, and Canada as an individual. We as Muslims who want our nation to be ruled by the laws of Allah in the Quran & Sunnah are very civil and not barbaric as people might think because of the practices of groups claiming to represent Islamic rule such as ISIS. Being merciful & just is a must for the laws to be implemented correctly.

As to food, Islam is strict not only in forbidding eating pork, but also any animal that is allowed to be eaten that is not slaughtered according to the Islamic method, which even if it seems gross or whatever, it's the most humane way to take the life of the food we eat.
Surah 5 Verse 121
And do not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has not been mentioned, for indeed, it is grave disobedience. And indeed do the devils inspire their allies [among men] to dispute with you. And if you were to obey them, indeed, you would be associators [of others with Him].

QuoteOther quotes: “Then came the second massacre which occurred close to the Raba'a sit-in.
The number of protesters killed was around a hundred.” Allegedly, the number of casualties was close to 600.

The second massacre that occurred after the veiled coup is "Alminasah massacre" near the place president Saddat was assassinated in 1982.
As to the number of people killed, 600 is the Egyptian government's official number. The MB probably hyped the number to 5000.
The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Quote“I lived in Egypt after the revolution.” I'm now living in safety where I can practice my rights”
So you don’t live in Saudi Arabia, nor in Egypt. You are probably living in a country with a properly functioning democracy, where Muslims are free to criticize the religion. Maybe you chose another “declared Islamic State”, like Mauritania, Yemen, Iran, Pakistan or Afganistan. If you chose a country where Islam is only a State religion, you had a wide choice too, Morocco, Iraq, Somalia, the UAE...

I'd rather not say for my safety.

Quote from: humbert on December 22, 2018, 06:28 AM
aa1234779 -> Can you tell us where you're living now, or must you keep that a secret for your safety and that of your family? Also, you stated you still have Saudi citizenship. If you needed to [for example] renew your passport, do you believe they might cut you into little pieces once you walk into their consulate. This is a serious question, not a joke.

I'd rather not say for now, for my safety mainly. As to going to consulates, that is suicide. Any government property owned by the Saudis should be off-limits for anyone who is known to oppose the monarchy.
I receive many death threats on a daily basis. Today, I reported a troll inciting people to break my ribs and twitter replied that there wasn't any inciting of violence! Even though the words of the troll were very blunt. I don't care. Threats to my family hurt me and makes me fear for their safety, may Allah preserve them and us all.

QuoteHow strong was Mohamed Mursi's relationship with the Islamic Brotherhood? I ask because these people, from what I've been hearing, were militant Islamists who forcibly wanted to impose their version of Islam, going so far as to harass Egypt's Coptic Christian minority. If indeed this is true then they are no different than the Saudi royal family.

Mursi is a long-time member of the brotherhood. He wasn't independent in his rule. His party controlled him. I believe he is a good guy if he had strong men around him.
The MB is the most lenient and amoebic group in the Islamic world. He kept Egypt as it was, secular, and he did not implement not one Islamic law. In his term, nightclub licenses were extended from 1 year to 3 years. His administration was very weak an unislamic. He did not oppress any minority. The best thing about MB was their hands were clean, no financial corruption was reported during his short presidency. He is more like Erdogan. Saudis implement a tainted version of Islam that is a veiled autocracy so people "obey" and shut the hell up.

QuotePlease clarify what you mean by "secular extremism". Before I say I agree or disagree, I want to be sure we're on the same page. As I recall last time we had a misunderstanding on this issue and I'd like to prevent another one.

e.g. China houses more than 1.3 million Muslims in concentration camps, separates families, takes away children from their mothers, punishes anyone who has a Quran gravely, and tries to brainwash Muslims to be atheist and a good law-abiding government worshiping subject.

Similarly in Egypt, the coup was veiled in a fake revolution. Just as their were protesters in Tahrir, their were protesters elsewhere supporting the democratically elected president. Many people including myself had hopes that Sharia will be implemented gradually, even if it starts with the economy, that would have been a great success. Then came The Sissy who forced himself on the nation by slaughtering hundreds if not thousands, and imprisoning 70,000 pro-sharia Muslims on illegitimate charges.

That is secular-extremism. Forcing beliefs, banning protest and free speech, instilling fear in the population, killing and imprisoning political opponents.

That is secularism practicing terrorism at it's finest.

Peace

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 23, 2018, 10:15 PM

Quote from: humbert on December 22, 2018, 06:28 AM
aa1234779 -> Can you tell us where you're living now, or must you keep that a secret for your safety and that of your family? Also, you stated you still have Saudi citizenship. If you needed to [for example] renew your passport, do you believe they might cut you into little pieces once you walk into their consulate. This is a serious question, not a joke.

I'd rather not say for now, for my safety mainly. As to going to consulates, that is suicide. Any government property owned by the Saudis should be off-limits for anyone who is known to oppose the monarchy.
I receive many death threats on a daily basis. Today, I reported a troll inciting people to break my ribs and twitter replied that there wasn't any inciting of violence! Even though the words of the troll were very blunt. I don't care. Threats to my family hurt me and makes me fear for their safety, may Allah preserve them and us all.

Well, I have the impression that you don't criticize Islam, but the Saudi and Egyptian governments. If you were here, you'd probably be a yellow jacket to stand against the government's policy (but you need to practice eating sausages and drinking whiskey). In some countries, those who are criticizing Islam are even more threatened.
Finally countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Turkey are caught between two stools: when they have terrorists who want a strict application of Sharia and the eviction of the "false Muslims" (those who are not Sunnis), they don't know what to do. And if they are applying strict rules (obligation to wear a beard and a towel on the head for every man, obligation for every man to work in fields or in carpentry workshops while women are allowed to stay at home), they are facing hordes of angry intellectuals clamoring for more liberty and rights.

Here is another video with Oukacha (French with English subtitles), who was threatened because of his stance regarding Islam (lately he said: "I do not like Islam and as long as I have the right to freely criticize this religion I will do it. I understand that it upsets you because it is your religion. An irrational, violent and freedom-destroying religion that you take literally").
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ1DEHHDg6k

Today I'm going to give you the link of an article written by Sylvain Tesson after his trip to Syria. The second one is the account of his trip (in French).

https://www.franceinter.fr/culture/partout-un-monde-fumant-sylvain-tesson-effraye-par-l-usure-du-monde
http://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/monde/2018/11/15/31002-20181115ARTFIG00401-sylvain-tesson-ce-que-j-ai-vu-en-syrie.php

Quote from: scarface on December 24, 2018, 01:17 AM
Well, I have the impression that you don't criticize Islam, but the Saudi and Egyptian governments.

Yup, I don't criticize Islam because I believe every word of the Quran to be true, and many Hadiths to be authentic & correctly narrated, even though some of them are disputed. I do criticize modifying the meaning intended by Allah & his prophet, because that is one of the main sources of deviance that is used to enslave Muslims, and the unauthentic Hadiths that are passed to people as legit when they're not.

QuoteIf you were here, you'd probably be a yellow jacket to stand against the government's policy (but you need to practice eating sausages and drinking whiskey). In some countries, those who are criticizing Islam are even more threatened

That might actually be true, I admire free people that stand for their deserved human rights and the drivers that started the yellow vest movement are honorable people to say no to the unjust price hikes. As to the sausages & whiskey, I'd rather not.  ;D
Falafil and Diet Coke would be just fine.

QuoteFinally countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Turkey are caught between two stools: when they have terrorists who want a strict application of Sharia and the eviction of the "false Muslims" (those who are not Sunnis), they don't know what to do. And if they are applying strict rules (obligation to wear a beard and a towel on the head for every man, obligation for every man to work in fields or in carpentry workshops while women are allowed to stay at home), they are facing hordes of angry intellectuals clamoring for more liberty and rights.

"No compulsion in religion" is the word of Allah that these extremists forget or misinterpret.
The mentioned regimes are one of the main causes of terrorist groups to rise because they are either secular, sectarian or anti-islamic as the Saudis are.
Strict application of Sharia does not mean evicting anyone even if they don't adopt the Sunnah. Nor does it mean forcing people to grow beards or men to cover their heads.
Quran 16:90 Indeed, Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded.

QuoteHere is another video with Oukacha (French with English subtitles), who was threatened because of his stance regarding Islam (lately he said: "I do not like Islam and as long as I have the right to freely criticize this religion I will do it. I understand that it upsets you because it is your religion. An irrational, violent and freedom-destroying religion that you take literally").
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ1DEHHDg6k

I'm sorry to know that firstly because his view on Islam are incorrect & biased, secondly, not only is his attitude to blame for being wrong, but there are also Muslims that misrepresent & misunderstand religion which is the mother of all ignorance in my view and a cause for people to hate Islam and take a biased stance towards it without doing their own research.
Forgive me, I don't have the mental capacity these days to watch and refute anti-Islamic videos these days especially.

Peace

If humbert or Maher are reading this, well, I'd like registrations on the forum to be opened again so that we can invite some users. I'm thinking about Majid Oukacha, who could answer aa1234779 for example (I hope you watched the video in the previous message). I'm also thinking about Kim Dotcom.
Note: If you are protesting by the roadside with the yellow jackets, with a cold weather, you'll need to drink some mulled wine to warm up. In the religion of the yellow jackets, it's an obligation. And Islam is not a pretext for avoid responsibilities.
Well, I didn't imagine all that, on Tuesday evening, I saw a group a protesters near Valence and I stopped my car to meet them. They were eating sausages and drinking alcohol, indeed.

Note that I'm preparing a new repack for Dishonored 2.

Quote from: scarface on December 24, 2018, 01:12 PM
If humbert or Maher are reading this, well, I'd like registrations on the forum to be opened again so that we can invite some users. I'm thinking about Majid Oukacha, who could answer aa1234779 for example (I hope you watched the video in the previous message). I'm also thinking about Kim Dotcom.

Majid Oukacha, I could understand. But Kim Dotcom, what would we debate? The ruling of copyrights in Islam?  ;D
I didn't watch Majid's video, because as I have said, my mind is way too busy to refute one person's views or distorted understanding of what Islam represents (especially when he isn't listening), while we, the people in the dissident movement, are trying to refute the falsehoods of armies of fake sheikhs that spread an unauthentic version of Islam which caused people like Majid to take such a stand. Priorities.

If someone was with us, and was willing to chat about Islam, then I wouldn't mind debating him, Majid Oukacha, Kim Dotcom, or even Al-Baghdadi!  8)

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 24, 2018, 01:39 PM
Majid Oukacha, I could understand. But Kim Dotcom, what would we debate?
If someone was with us, and was willing to chat about Islam, then I wouldn't mind debating him, Majid Oukacha, Kim Dotcom, or even Al-Baghdadi!  8)

Well, I uploaded a lot of stuff on the forum, and most of them are uploaded via mega.
Finally, it's thanks to Kim Dotcom if so many games and movies are available here.
Obviously, I wouldn't invite him to talk about Islam. As for Baghdadi, I'm not sure any debate would be possible either.



Here is a video shot this weekend on the Champs Elysées. The yellow jackets are attacking policemen and one of them pulled his gun in self-defense.
https://twitter.com/ClementLanot/status/1076515134699462656?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1076575276438556672&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Fpolice-justice%2Farticle%2F2018%2F12%2F23%2Fgilets-jaunes-les-forces-de-l-ordre-craignent-par-dessus-tout-un-mort-pendant-les-manifestations_5401664_1653578.html

There is an on-going revolution in Sudan that started on Dec. 19
Only the protesters aren't attacking anyone, it's the security forces that are attacking the people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XkxlEmUnDQ

It might be the Arab Spring once again after 7 years.

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 23, 2018, 10:15 PM
e.g. China houses more than 1.3 million Muslims in concentration camps, separates families, takes away children from their mothers, punishes anyone who has a Quran gravely, and tries to brainwash Muslims to be atheist and a good law-abiding government worshiping subject.

What you just stated is an example of what is officially an atheist state. They are ruled by governments whose intent is to crush religion and impose atheism as its official policy. In no way can this be compared with a secular government. In [for example] Canada, there are churches, mosques, synagogues, Bhuddist temples, etc. They all live side by side in peace. The government does not bother them nor do they impose their ways on the rest of us. This is what I mean by a secular government and, most importantly, total and complete separation of church and state. This is the only way to guarantee freedom OF religion, and, equally as important, freedom FROM religion.

Incidentally, I just did a Google search. If you're ever in San Antonio and want to meet me, there are 3 mosques here. You can visit any of them freely. I give you solid guarantees that nobody will bother you.

Quote from: humbert on December 25, 2018, 05:42 AM
What you just stated is an example of what is officially an atheist state. They are ruled by governments whose intent is to crush religion and impose atheism as its official policy. In no way can this be compared with a secular government. In [for example] Canada, there are churches, mosques, synagogues, Bhuddist temples, etc. They all live side by side in peace. The government does not bother them nor do they impose their ways on the rest of us. This is what I mean by a secular government and, most importantly, total and complete separation of church and state. This is the only way to guarantee freedom OF religion, and, equally as important, freedom FROM religion.

Incidentally, I just did a Google search. If you're ever in San Antonio and want to meet me, there are 3 mosques here. You can visit any of them freely. I give you solid guarantees that nobody will bother you.

So this way, when you say "secular government" you mean a state which separates religion from government, right?

Then liberal democracies such as the US, Canada, and most European countries are secular because they separate religion from government. I totally agree with you on that.

In turn, we all know that communist states such as China, North Korea, and the now abolished USSR impose atheism upon the people by inhumane means.

So, either communism is also secular (maybe even the purist form), or atheism is just another man-made religion forced on unwilling citizens. Which is it in your opinion?

If none of the above, are the communist states mentioned not secular, leaving only liberal democracies as secular?

Wouldn't that make atheism a religion?

BTW, I don't mind visiting San Diego one day. I've never been to the west coast, nothing west past Mississippi/Missouri.
I love the states not for the aggression on humanity its government commits, nor for the double-standards when it comes to human life (At home, and abroad), nor for the racist culture that's spreading like a wildfire in a dry forest.
But for the honorable & kind people I knew there that truly believed in "Freedom & Justice for all". And I wouldn't lie if I told you that I've never seen beautiful nature like what I saw in the states which is truly a marvel of Allah's creation.

Peace

The number of Sudanese people killed in the December 19th revolution has risen to 37 human lives so far, according to Amnesty. From the pictures I've seen, most were shots aimed at the head.

Edit: Here is fresh kill from today's protests. Yet again, sniper shot to the head.
WARNING: GRAPHIC FOOTAGE
https://twitter.com/unaforg/status/1077567578992726016

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 25, 2018, 01:13 PM
In turn, we all know that communist states such as China, North Korea, and the now abolished USSR impose atheism upon the people by inhumane means. So, either communism is also secular (maybe even the purist form), or atheism is just another man-made religion forced on unwilling citizens. Wouldn't that make atheism a religion? Which is it in your opinion?

Atheism is a belief (or belief system). It's not a religion because there is no god to worship nor is there any set a values a typical relgion would have. Like all belief systems, it can be forcibly imposed and even become a country's official policy. This is precisely what happened in countries like Communist China and Stalinist Russia. Forcible imposition of any belief system is not just wrong, it's an abomination against humanity. In that regard Communist China, Stalinist Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran and even Vatican City (a sovereign nation too) are all the same garbage. I firmly believe this despite the fact that I'm an atheist myself. We're not all bad as many religions would lead you to believe.  :)

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 25, 2018, 01:13 PM
If none of the above, are the communist states mentioned not secular, leaving only liberal democracies as secular?

Let's assume in this example the French government is truly secular (sadly not the case). Let's go to a nice Mediterranean beach on a summer day. We have a woman dressed in a burkini and, 3 meters away, another one who is totally naked (legal in Europe as you know):

Atheist state:     Woman in Burkink is arrested, accused of practicing religion illegally
Religious state:  Naked woman arrested, accused of indecency
Secular state:    No one arrested, the rights of both women equally respected under the law

That sums it up.

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 25, 2018, 01:13 PM
BTW, I don't mind visiting San Diego one day. I've never been to the west coast, nothing west past Mississippi/Missouri.
I love the states not for the aggression on humanity its government commits, nor for the double-standards when it comes to human life (At home, and abroad), nor for the racist culture that's spreading like a wildfire in a dry forest.
But for the honorable & kind people I knew there that truly believed in "Freedom & Justice for all". And I wouldn't lie if I told you that

Of course I know this country has established itself as a self-appointed world policeman. Just like everywhere, there is injustice, racism, double-standards etc. Having visited this USA, I'm sure you agree that in real life these problems are nowhere near as bad as the news media would lead you to believe. Here in my neighborhood there are people who hang American flags outside their homes. They probably believe in that "Freedom & Justice for all" garbage. Despite this, nobody has yet knocked on my door to ask why I don't have a flag outside my house. We live in peace, we respect each other and I have no issue with someone hanging a flag just like I have no issue with you being a Muslim. As Mexico's Benito Juarez once said, "Respect for the right of others is peace". A great quote by a great man.

Oh, and before I forget. Here in San Antonio I personally have seen women wearing hijabs and even a few wearing niqabs. Some of them were doing their jobs, such as one serving coffee at Starbucks. Another once is a nice girl who waits at the bus stop to go to school in the morning. She is together with her other friends who do NOT wear hijabs and they seem to get along well. The women are free to dress as they please, NOBODY bothers them - in fact if somebody mistreats them they will be arrested by the police. Sadly in France this does not appear to be the case.

Quote from: humbert on December 26, 2018, 06:50 AM
Atheism is a belief (or belief system). It's not a religion because there is no god to worship nor is there any set a values a typical relgion would have. Like all belief systems, it can be forcibly imposed and even become a country's official policy. This is precisely what happened in countries like Communist China and Stalinist Russia. Forcible imposition of any belief system is not just wrong, it's an abomination against humanity. In that regard Communist China, Stalinist Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iran and even Vatican City (a sovereign nation too) are all the same garbage. I firmly believe this despite the fact that I'm an atheist myself. We're not all bad as many religions would lead you to believe.  :)

Whether atheism is a belief (or belief system) or a religion, there is a god that atheists worship imho that is one's self and ideas.
Atheism led communists to be inhumane because they hold the values of Marx, Lennon, Stalin, Mao, and others to be holy even if they claim otherwise.
I believe as many other Muslims do that not all atheists are evil, Allah says in the Quran: "They aren't alike" as to Jews & Christians and the same goes for all other faiths including atheists & Muslims who are not an exception as evil exists in humanity in general.

QuoteLet's assume in this example the French government is truly secular (sadly not the case). Let's go to a nice Mediterranean beach on a summer day. We have a woman dressed in a burkini and, 3 meters away, another one who is totally naked (legal in Europe as you know):

Atheist state:     Woman in Burkink is arrested, accused of practicing religion illegally
Religious state:  Naked woman arrested, accused of indecency
Secular state:    No one arrested, the rights of both women equally respected under the law

That sums it up.

Great example indeed.
Although I'm openly against nudity.

QuoteOf course I know this country has established itself as a self-appointed world policeman. Just like everywhere, there is injustice, racism, double-standards etc. Having visited this USA, I'm sure you agree that in real life these problems are nowhere near as bad as the news media would lead you to believe. Here in my neighborhood there are people who hang American flags outside their homes. They probably believe in that "Freedom & Justice for all" garbage. Despite this, nobody has yet knocked on my door to ask why I don't have a flag outside my house. We live in peace, we respect each other and I have no issue with someone hanging a flag just like I have no issue with you being a Muslim. As Mexico's Benito Juarez once said, "Respect for the right of others is peace". A great quote by a great man.

I not only visited the states, I lived there for more than 3 years in Alabama (Heart of Dixie) which I still love to this day. I was taught by some of the greatest teachers despite difference in religion & the secular curriculum. How can I forget all that?
America, is not pure evil, there is a lot of good in the people there and much much kindness.
I say this even though I was bullied on a daily basis, made fun of my accent, told to go back to my country many many times.
As to the slogan "Freedom & Justice for all" I believe in that as a principle that all humanity should adopt, not the American way of implementation though, being an evil imperialist superpower that bullies other nations & imposes tyrants upon them in the disguise of "policeman of the world".

QuoteOh, and before I forget. Here in San Antonio I personally have seen women wearing hijabs and even a few wearing niqabs. Some of them were doing their jobs, such as one serving coffee at Starbucks. Another once is a nice girl who waits at the bus stop to go to school in the morning. She is together with her other friends who do NOT wear hijabs and they seem to get along well. The women are free to dress as they please, NOBODY bothers them - in fact if somebody mistreats them they will be arrested by the police. Sadly in France this does not appear to be the case.

Oops, I misread San Antonio as San Diego.
That is nice to hear that there is tolerance & mutual respect between fellow citizens & residents. It hurts me though seeing immigrants being bullied by supremacists.
Last I saw was the Syrian immigrant girl being beaten in a school bathroom, she was later hospitalized. The same happens in the UK unfortunately.
The problem with American culture nowadays is the clown president that spreads hate and reinforces the ideas of racists, causing hate crimes and assaults against minorities (especially Muslims) to rise according to national surveys, not Majed's words.
I hope the US & France the whole world lives in peace & tolerance to different people.
And maybe if I come to San Antonio one day, I'll watch a Spurs game with you if you attend basketball games.

Peace

As we have mentioned atheism and atheist, it's a chance to tell who my favorite atheists are, not for their beliefs which I do not agree with respectfully, but because they are free men who stand up for others, and live not only for themselves, but for humanity as a whole with no selfishness at all imo.

Naom Chomsky
Norman Finkelstein
and George Carlin  ;D


You can find some good reads about the middle east on this site, I recommend bookmarking it:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/its-more-bread-why-are-protests-sudan-happening-468957326

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 26, 2018, 02:04 PM
Whether atheism is a belief (or belief system) or a religion, there is a god that atheists worship imho that is one's self and ideas.

I disagree. Atheists believe there are no gods, plain and simple. I can't speak for other atheists but rest assured I don't worship myself nor anything else. My opinions are based on science and logic, or at last least my interpretation.

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 26, 2018, 02:04 PM
Atheism led communists to be inhumane because they hold the values of Marx, Lennon, Stalin, Mao, and others to be holy even if they claim otherwise.

There is no question that the system imposed in Stalinist Russia, Maoist China and today's North Korea have all the characteristics of a religion. The leaders of these countries created a personality cult which, for all intents and purposes, raised them to the level of living gods. The system comes complete with a set of rules and values. It's even monotheistic just like Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

Marx is a different story. He believed organized religion was complicit which those who were oppressing the workers by promising them heaven if they behaved themselves. That's why he called religion the "Opium of the People". Consequently, atheism is the norm (no god, no complicity).

John Lennon was a man of peace who simply didn't believe in religion, or maybe that religion has a negative influence for humanity.

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 26, 2018, 02:04 PM
I believe as many other Muslims do that not all atheists are evil, Allah says in the Quran: "They aren't alike" as to Jews & Christians and the same goes for all other faiths including atheists & Muslims who are not an exception as evil exists in humanity in general.

This is great! When I was a child in Catholic school, we were taught atheists were bad people or at the very least misguided. They were clearly on the enemies list. I believe it's illegal to openly be an atheist in the KSA and Iran.

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 26, 2018, 02:04 PM
Although I'm openly against nudity.

You are within your rights to hold this or any opinion. In my case it's not so much that burkinis offend me, I just think it's ridiculous for women to have to wear these disgusting rags because their religions says so. One thing is for sure -- neither one of us has the right to impose our beliefs on these women, no matter how much we disagree.

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 26, 2018, 02:04 PM
I say this even though I was bullied on a daily basis, made fun of my accent, told to go back to my country many many times.
As to the slogan "Freedom & Justice for all" I believe in that as a principle that all humanity should adopt, not the American way of implementation though, being an evil imperialist superpower that bullies other nations & imposes tyrants upon them in the disguise of "policeman of the world".

Bullies exist everywhere and they always will. I know, I too was bullied and made fun of in school because I stutter when I speak. Fortunately as you yourself state, not everyone is like that. You could have told them this:

You: Do you speak Arabic?
Response: No
You: Then you should be ashamed of yourself for speaking just one language. How ignorant!

And of course I fervently disagree with this country's imperialist policies. Like all empires, it too will eventually die off. And of course I despise this moron who is now the president. Hopefully the new congress will draft a bill of impeachment to remove him from power.

It must be really sad to be an immigrant, both here and in Europe. First you have these evil people smugglers who sell them on the idea that the streets of America and Europe are paved with gold. Then they steal their life savings. After that these people end up in an abominable situation, being hated and rejected with everyone and with no place to go. I often believe people smugglers should be hanged without trial.

Quote from: aa1234779 on December 26, 2018, 02:04 PM
And maybe if I come to San Antonio one day, I'll watch a Spurs game with you if you attend basketball games.

I'd love that! Maybe one day it'll happen. If you want I'll take you to one of the mosques I mentioned so you can pray in peace.

aa1234779 -> I have a question. As far as I know, Islam has no "command structure" - there are no bishops, no priests, no ministers, no rabbis etc. What then is an Imam? Is he just somebody who maintains a mosque, or a teacher, or what? Also, how does an Imam become an Imam?

Also, how does a marriage ceremony work in Islam? I ask because in Christianity and Judaism it involves the use of a priest, minister or rabbi. Nothing like that in Islam (correct me if I'm wrong).

Quote from: humbert on April 05, 2019, 07:06 AM
aa1234779 -> I have a question. As far as I know, Islam has no "command structure" - there are no bishops, no priests, no ministers, no rabbis etc. What then is an Imam? Is he just somebody who maintains a mosque, or a teacher, or what? Also, how does an Imam become an Imam?

Hi
Nice hearing from you.
An Imam is someone simply that has a great following.
There are only two authentic Imams in the original form of Islam before innovations & denominations took over.
The great Imam: the leader of the Islamic nation. Otherwise known as a Khalifah (Caliph). He is chosen by the nation's scholars & community leaders based on certain criteria that he has to meet. Those choosing him also must fit a certain criteria.
The Imam of prayer (Salah), he is to be appointed by the congregation based on his memory of the Quran, and his morals & piety, so if the people of a mosque have someone memorizing 10 of 30 chapters of the Holy book, and another only 5, they are obliged to choose the one memorizing more, on the condition he is not a known criminal or something that would deem him immoral.

Then there are Imams that are called that either because a certain Khalifah named them that, or there followers called them that, it's more because of them being an authority in knowledge & Fatwa, not that they have official power or anything.

The "twelver" Shiite Muslims on the other hand claim that their are 12 Imams that have special powers & knowledge after the last messenger from Allah died. I don't believe that.

Quote
Also, how does a marriage ceremony work in Islam? I ask because in Christianity and Judaism it involves the use of a priest, minister or rabbi. Nothing like that in Islam (correct me if I'm wrong).

No holy man must bless a marriage in Islam, their are a few requirements, that's all.

1- A guardian for the woman. (Many Hanafi school scholars don't require that, and I disagree!)
2- Telling the man he married his relative to the man.
3- Acceptance from the man.
4- Dowry, even if it were an iron ring. Some woman require less or more, some waive that right willingly.
5- Two Muslim adult male witnesses.
6- Making the marriage announced, usually by inviting people to eat food, preferably a sheep (according to the prophet's tradition). (This is contested as "a must")

I like to add one more, the intent from the man's side that this marriage is forever, because lately with the ease of travel and availability of money, marriage has become a means to take advantage of poor families to prey on their daughter's in temporary marriages.


Your interest in such matters is surprising.  :)

Thanks for replying. Keep in mind you're the one doing me a favor by responding.  :)

You mentioned 2 great emams who were nominated by their peers because of the knowledge and dedication. Does this mean there are no living emams in Sunni Islam? Or are there more scattered around, perhaps teaching at at Madrassah? BTW, did you attend a Madrassah yourself?

With respect to marriage:

1) What is the role of a guardian for a woman and why do you believe one is needed? Does the guardian have to be a man?

2) Man married his relative?? I'm confused.

3) Acceptance from the man? Isn't he the one who usually proposes marriage to the woman, and even more so in male-dominant societies?

4) I'm not clear about what your definition of "dowry" is. I'm under the impression a dowry is something a man pays the woman's family for her hand in marriage, almost like a purchase. This may not be what you're referring to.

5) As for making the marriage announced, does this mean there is no ceremony? It's a simple matter of moving in together, making a few phone calls and telling everyone, nothing else? Does this also mean you can get unmarried in the same way?

Just trying to understand.

Quote from: humbert on April 09, 2019, 07:03 AM
Thanks for replying. Keep in mind you're the one doing me a favor by responding.  :)

Not a favor at all. It's my duty to tell a friend what I know.

Quote
You mentioned 2 great emams who were nominated by their peers because of the knowledge and dedication. Does this mean there are no living emams in Sunni Islam? Or are there more scattered around, perhaps teaching at at Madrassah? BTW, did you attend a Madrassah yourself?

They are two kinds of Imams, the great Imam & the Mosque Imam.
There are countless Mosque Imams 'living', but Muslims around the world have not instated a ruler (great Imam), and I don't know if there is one living that will be made a ruler of Muslims.
I never studied Islam academically other than that in Saudi schools (very narrowed down knowledge), except for an elective course on creed in my English B.A.
My Sheikh is books, and my Madrasah is the library (& Google  ;D )

Quote
With respect to marriage:

1) What is the role of a guardian for a woman and why do you believe one is needed? Does the guardian have to be a man?

The role of the guardian is accepting the man to be a husband of his female family member.
Women can be swain by unworthy men as we all know, more likely than men to be by unworthy women. If a man is immorally fit, the guardian is supposed to decline.
If the guardian forbids his female relative from marriage or is unfit for any reason, the justice system should take care of that, and the judge become the guardian.

Quote
2) Man married his relative?? I'm confused.

I meant to say the guardian giving his female relative to a man 'in-marriage'.

Quote3) Acceptance from the man? Isn't he the one who usually proposes marriage to the woman, and even more so in male-dominant societies?

yes, this is how it goes in Islam, after proposing and such, when marriage is becoming official, the Islamic way is the bride is given, and the groom accepts.

Quote4) I'm not clear about what your definition of "dowry" is. I'm under the impression a dowry is something a man pays the woman's family for her hand in marriage, almost like a purchase. This may not be what you're referring to.

Yes, it's anything owned by the man that he gives to his wife to be married to her.
It shouldn't go to her family, it's hers to keep, unless she gives by choice.
It's not a purchase in anyway. It's a woman's right in Islam.

Quote5) As for making the marriage announced, does this mean there is no ceremony? It's a simple matter of moving in together, making a few phone calls and telling everyone, nothing else?

No compulsiveness in the type of ceremony for marrying in Islam.
The minimum is slaughtering a sheep, and inviting others to eat which is a sort of announcement, or you can do it over the phone or inviting people to Taco Bell.
This is the legal side in Islam, and different Islamic cultures have their own types of ceremonies.

QuoteDoes this also mean you can get unmarried in the same way?

Divorce in Islam is a whole other story. It's complicated to explain.
It's a 3 strike policy with return possible. It's a decision of the husband.
The woman, if for any reason, whether legitimate or not, wants divorce, she can ask for it, or file a case in court if the man is an unfit husband. The results & the type of divorce differ, as in some cases, she needs to give back the dowry in order for the marriage to be dissolved.
I'm not an expert on this matter, and I really hate family separation as I've seen what that can do to kids, but 'stuff' happens as we all know.

QuoteJust trying to understand.

And it's always a pleasure to answer with what I know.

Quote from: aa1234779 on April 11, 2019, 08:43 AM
The role of the guardian is accepting the man to be a husband of his female family member.
Women can be swain by unworthy men as we all know, more likely than men to be by unworthy women. If a man is immorally fit, the guardian is supposed to decline. If the guardian forbids his female relative from marriage or is unfit for any reason, the justice system should take care of that, and the judge become the guardian.

Does this imply that the woman in question is not wise enough to choose a man she's comfortable with? Also, what if the guardian is the one who's wrong and recommends a man who isn't in the woman's best interests? Remember that history is full of "Romeo and Juliet" type stories. Oh, and as you say, women are NOT the only ones who can fall victim to a bad partner. It happened to me. If I were a Muslim I would not have had a guardian to dissuade me.

Quote from: aa1234779 on April 11, 2019, 08:43 AM
Yes, it's anything owned by the man that he gives to his wife to be married to her.
It shouldn't go to her family, it's hers to keep, unless she gives by choice. It's not a purchase in anyway. It's a woman's right in Islam.

Let's take a simple example. Suppose you own a car and your wife-to-be has a car too. Does she get both cars? Or are we talking a situation where both cars are jointly owned?

Quote from: aa1234779 on April 11, 2019, 08:43 AM
This is the legal side in Islam, and different Islamic cultures have their own types of ceremonies. Divorce in Islam is a whole other story. It's complicated to explain.

I get the idea. There's an important distinction here. As far as I know, all countries, including Muslim/Arab countries, have civil marriage (and divorce) with different laws according to each country. I wasn't referring to that. I meant from a purely religious point of view. You explained that basically you agree to marry and throw a little party, although that's not mandatory (or so I think). The civil marriage is another animal entirely. Here in the USA for a civil marriage you go to some government office and sign a scrap of paper. The ceremony (if desired) is entirely your problem, the civil marriage license doesn't even mention it.