Financial news and stock markets.

[harkaz]

There is no way to avoid cutting expenses. However, the Grexit economy will not be required to have a surplus for a long period of time as it happens now in Euro-> taxes could be very low and real economy would begin to sprout. In addition, necessary reforms will be made - forcibly, because Greece has huge problems with its productivity.

The current deal will kill the Greek economy. Social unrest did not start yesterday but it will start sooner or later. This happened in Argentina as well with another leftist government before its 2001 default. Mr Tsipras is nothing more than an incompetent and coward, afraid of the geopolitical risks a Grexit would ensue. A path which, in the end of the day, will be inevitable due to the violent reaction of the deprived Greek people.

[scarface]

As harkaz said, the situation in Greece is a bit confused, and tonight the summit ended with nothing new.
It's difficult to know what's going to happen.
In the meantime, the Greeks are emptying their account...and it's a catastrophe for the Greek banks.

[humbert]

@Harkaz - Then it is your opinion that the only viable way is a Grexit due to the fact that agreeing to the EU's terms will cause undue hardship on the Greek people. What happens to the debt(s)? Greece will not pay, or will they pay back on their own terms?

@Fuj - When NATO was established as a military alliance in 1949, the target was the Soviet Union and it's satellite states (i.e., Communism). From 1989 to 1991 NATO's mortal enemy essentially self-destructed. It seems that Putin - a KGB man - wants to return to those days prior to 1989 and essentially reverse everything Yeltsin did. How many rights and freedoms has he curtailed in Russia itself? There is no question he killed Boris Nemtsov, and he'll so the same to anyone who stands in his way.

No matter how advanced technology becomes, the MAD concept will still be there. Last I heard the USA could destroy the entire planet 34 times over, and Russia about half that many times. There are too many missiles and only a few have to get through to produce a nuclear holocaust. In your post you forgot to mention submarine based missiles. One submarine alone could do it all. Had this not been the case, WW3 would have happened long ago. This situation makes WW3 impossible - would be no winners, only losers.

[harkaz]

@humbert Greece is unable to pay up its debt. This very clear to me at least. We could reach a compromise with creditors after hard and long negotiations as to how much money we'll pay and when, depending on Greek economy performance. For Greece to start paying, however, a stabilization of the economy is required.

There are some financial analysts here in Greece who argue that the MFAFA itself is not legal according to international Law. I'm not an expert on the subject but since Greek government accepted the 2010 loan agreement with a full loss of its immunity as a sovereign state and a loss of other immunities as well (ie. creditors can confiscate everything they want in Greek territory in case of default), it's quite possible.

Of course this means that all PMs/Ministers/Bank Governors who signed the MFAFAs or their amendments should be prosecuted for high treason. There is a clear financial benefit for them from signing that loan agreement: they transferred their money abroad, which would otherwise be lost (Greek banks would fail).

[humbert]

Based on what you're telling us it seems the most viable, if not the only solution is a Grexit. Greece would pay loans back on their own terms. OK.

You mentioned Papandreou signed a paper saying creditors had the right to confiscate assets located in Greek territory. How do they intend to do this without a full fledged military invasion? Imagine Angela Merkel raising the German flag over the Parthenon!

[harkaz]

Based on what you're telling us it seems the most viable, if not the only solution is a Grexit. Greece would pay loans back on their own terms. OK.

You mentioned Papandreou signed a paper saying creditors had the right to confiscate assets located in Greek territory. How do they intend to do this without a full fledged military invasion? Imagine Angela Merkel raising the German flag over the Parthenon!

This seems improbable indeed, but given how fuc*ing desperate the greek elite is about staying in the Eurozone, who knows what they'll be willing to agree to after a potential default just to remain in the eurozone...

Greek elite is nothing more than a bunch of parasites that destroyed the Greek economy in the last 40 years. If they dare touch any strategic assets to service the debt they created just to save the banks that themselves brought on the brink of collapse by getting high loans and not paying back, there will be blood on the Greek streets.

[harkaz]

GRexit selected. Alexis Tsipras calls a referendum for the Greek voters to vote against the proposed deal.

[scarface]

as harkaz said, Greece is moving closer to default. Greece's European partners shut the door on extending a credit lifeline to Athens, leaving it facing a default that could push it out of the euro after the leftist government rejected tough lender demands and put their bailout deal to a referendum.

Germany’s Wolfgang Schauble also said Greece had ended talks. And several other ministers suggested it could be time for Europe to consider Plan B, ie, how to handle a Greek default, and potential exit from the single currency.

In Greece there have been long queues at some cash machines in Athens as people react to Alexisis Tsipras’s shock announcement late last night

[humbert]

Based on everything we're seeing in the news and your posts, it appears a Grexit is inevitable. All we can do now it wait and see what happens.

@Fuj - another reason the US and NATO are building sophisticated anti-missile systems and similar things is because defense contractors in this country stand to make a fortune in the process. They have friends in high places, many of whom are on the take.

I'm not too clear as to why the historical animosity (dating back before Lenin)  between Russia and the West exists at all. I can only assume it's competition for resources. If someone such as Boris Nemsov managed to replace Putin, do you think he'd be able to at least mitigate this situation, if not bring it to an end?

[scarface]

With the current events in Greece, Monday could be interesting. An article of zero hedge is stating "Some Banks May Not Open Monday" according to Greek officials: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-27/greek-officials-warn-some-banks-may-not-open-monday
The Hellenic stock exchange could stay closed too.
According to those who have access to the futures on the dax 30, the German stock exchange, it was losing 460 points on Sunday. if nothing changes, It's going to be "the feta Alexis with good milk of bullis" on the markets.


In the meantime, let's pray for harkaz and for our Greek brothers.