Author Topic: What's happening in Egypt?  (Read 18289 times)

July 17, 2014, 09:14 AM
Reply #30
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Sorry for interrupting but let me say that I don't think so.
Non-Muslims can do what they want as long as they don't harm others, like drinking alcohol for example. (although it's a crime in Sharia for Muslims).
In short, as long as Muslims are not involved in the crimes of non-Muslims, non-Muslims can solve their matters using their rules.

I remember a story that happened during our prophet's era (peace be upon him and all the prophets).. in which a Muslim is the one who is involved not non-Muslim. However, the penalty could be cancelled too.

Someday, a Muslim man came to our prophet confessing to him that he had committed adultery. Our prophet responded to him saying that he might kissed only and told him to go back and pray for forgiveness..
The man came back to the prophet 3 times saying the same thing, and the prophet also responded the same in the 3 times.

I understand from this that our merciful prophet didn't want to hear the whole story and he saw that the man became sad about his crime and wanted Allah to forgive him,
All of this are signs of repentance and he is a good man,
so the prophet wanted to forgive him, so he told him to go back and pray for forgiveness..
So, we can conclude that in crimes in which the Muslim doesn't harm others, forgiveness is allowed and penalty is not always necessary.
Also, he should cover himself (not telling others) as long as nobody had seen him, and pray for forgiveness and Allah will forgive him if he truly regrets what he has done and decides not to do it again.
.. Allah wants first to cover people's mistakes (as long as they don't harm others) until they repent, because Allah told us that his mercy precedes his anger.

If the man did what he was told, Allah would forgive him too.
But since he came back again and again and people knew about his crime, the penalty must have been executed so as not to let others think that the prophet was not applying Allah's rules and  the adultery is easy and they can do it and earn forgiveness !!

This man was pure because although nobody had seen him doing his crime, he knew that Allah had seen him and he wanted his forgiveness even if the cost was his life, so I think our prophet saw this in the man and by that, he deserved forgiveness without any penalty. But the man didn't understand this tolerance.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 10:06 AM by Ahmad »
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

July 17, 2014, 01:58 PM
Reply #31
@Ahmed. I agree with what you said. One companion also came to the Prophet (pbuh) and said that he had done everything with a woman except intercourse.. After being turned away more than once, the Prophet asked if he had prayed with them Esha, he said he did, then the Prophet responded that his sin was forgiven. Yes, a sinner should cover his sin & repent and it's undesirable in Sharia that one confesses or gets caught. Abiding the law should stem from the heart out of the longing for the reward & fear of punishment in the afterlife.

Let's clarify a point to be sure we're talking about the same thing. You're saying Muslims lived in peace for many years with non-Muslims under Sharia law? Was everybody subject to Sharia law or just the Muslims. For example, if a Christian or Jewish man was caught drinking would he have been given [for example] 50 lashes despite the fact that these religions have no prohibition on alcohol? Would a non-Muslim woman be stoned to death for adultery even despite the fact that she and her husband had reached some sort of solution among themselves?

Drinking indoors for non-Muslims is allowed in a Muslim state. It's prohibited for the ruler to break the privacy of Muslims even when it comes to something happening under the cover of a closed house.
As to stoning or lashing for adultery for Muslims, it's either a confession (judge should turn away multiple times the confessor as the prophet did) or four witnesses that have seen the most explicit part of the intercourse, and if that doesn't comply for the witnesses they are the ones lashed 80 times and the testimony of the false witness will never be accepted again.
Non-Muslims are treated the same only when they bring the matter to court, other than that it's really hard in Sharia to prove such a crime against someone.

As for everything else, I strongly believe one thing: religion and government can never be mixed. Doing so is a recipe for disaster. I mean any religion, certainly not just Islam. Religion is a private matter that cannot ever be enforced by the rule of law. Let's go back to alcohol as an example. Suppose I were Egyptian and the Muslim Brotherhood remained in power and established some sort of Islamic rule. If they now told me I could no longer drink, I consider this a gross violation of my rights. I am not a Muslim and therefore not subject to their rules, not to mention the fact that I drink responsibly and hurt nobody in the process.
Awkwardly, in the year Mursi ruled, he renewed three year contracts for liquor stores instead of one year as it was before.
Banning non-Muslims from drinking or eating pork or whatever else they responsibly do in their privacy is considered an extremity. In Saudi Arabia, they are allowed to do so by the way.
The brotherhood is lenient in theory when it comes to implementing Sharia as can be seen in their fatwas & books that I've read.
In fact, they are more lenient than Saudis because Egyptians are fun loving people that aren't extreme in anyway. If you visit Egypt sometime, you'll see them as no different from other Egyptians. The media gave them an unrealistic image.

I strongly agree with freedom of religion, but even more with freedom from religion, in fact, you can't have one without the other. I fail to see how Islam can be called a religion of peace and tolerance if they try to forcibly impose their rules on the rest of us.

Islam protects freedom of religion that it is never forced upon anyone, the legislative evidence for that in the Quran:

    There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. - Quran 2:256

    And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers? - Quran 10:99

    And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." - Quran 18:29

    If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves. - Quran 17:7

    There has come to you enlightenment from your Lord. So whoever will see does so for [the benefit of] his soul, and whoever is blind [does harm] against it. And [say], "I am not a guardian over you." - Quran 6:104

    "Indeed, We guided him to the way, be he grateful or be he ungrateful." - Quran 76:3

    Say, "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn away - then upon him is only that [duty] with which he has been charged, and upon you is that with which you have been charged. And if you obey him, you will be [rightly] guided. And there is not upon the Messenger except the [responsibility for] clear notification." - Quran 24:54

    And obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn away - then upon Our Messenger is only [the duty of] clear notification. - Quran 64:12

    And obey Allah and obey the Messenger and beware. And if you turn away - then know that upon Our Messenger is only [the responsibility for] clear notification. - Quran 5:92

    So if they argue with you, say, "I have submitted myself to Allah [in Islam], and [so have] those who follow me." And say to those who were given the Scripture and [to] the unlearned, "Have you submitted yourselves?" And if they submit [in Islam], they are rightly guided; but if they turn away - then upon you is only the [duty of] notification. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants. - Quran 3:20

    Say, "O mankind, the truth has come to you from your Lord, so whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul, and whoever goes astray only goes astray [in violation] against it. And I am not over you a manager." - Quran 10:108

    Indeed, We sent down to you the Book for the people in truth. So whoever is guided - it is for [the benefit of] his soul; and whoever goes astray only goes astray to its detriment. And you are not a manager over them. - Quran 39:41

    But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them. - Quran 6:107

    And whether We show you part of what We promise them or take you in death, upon you is only the [duty of] notification, and upon Us is the account. - Quran 13:40

    Then upon you is only the [duty of] notification. And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants. - Quran 3:20

This is God's law that most Muslims read & understand. Goes the same for other issues. Scholars & judges interpret that law but cannot change a thing or claim something in the Quran or Sunnah when it is not their. It's just another justice system of the many out there.
In my view, the problem as I have said is that the majority of Muslims in Islamic Nations are being ruled by the minority of secular extremists and aren't allowed to go back to the laws of Sharia that has ruled them before colonialists came, divided the land & people, and imposed unjust secular laws that come from France, England, or the minds of the short-sighted humans. You can rest assured sharia isn't coming anywhere around you anytime soon  ;D

« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 02:03 PM by aa1234779 »
Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) said “Surah (chapter of) Hud and its sisters turned my hair gray"

Hud (11)

July 18, 2014, 12:36 PM
Reply #32
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aa1234779 -> Everything you said makes perfect sense and would be typical of a truly free secular government. In other words, religion is religion, government is government and people can do as they please only so long as they do not infringe on the rights of anybody else. Are you saying this is truly the Muslim Brotherhood's platform?

As for adultery, honestly I didn't fully understand your explanation, but my opinion is this: we're talking a private matter that has no place in government with the possible exception of laws concerning divorce. The guilty party must reconcile with their spouse and with Allah directly. As I understand it, only Allah forgives sins, men do not.

July 27, 2014, 07:00 PM
Reply #33
Jon Snow speaks about what he saw in Gaza:

Saddening that they have to put up with more of this during Eid..
Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) said “Surah (chapter of) Hud and its sisters turned my hair gray"

Hud (11)

July 28, 2014, 07:36 PM
Reply #34
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Saddening that they have to put up with more of this during Eid..

Murder is murder, Eid or not. Then these people wonder why they've been hated by everybody since time began.

November 22, 2014, 10:22 AM
Reply #35
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You know, Ive been wondering what Ahmad really thought about what happened in Egypt, that's to say if he had felt relieved or revolted after the army killed 1500 terrorists and detained 15000, notably during the protests of Rabaa and Nahda, to bring back stability in the country.
Clearly, these were unconventional measures, but this was a courageous decision and personally, I consider General Sissi a savior for Egypt. This country was facing a civil war because these people were calling for a conflict, but today it seems that the situation has improved, Egypt even tries to promote again tourism.

Of course, some people have disapproved of the means used by Sissi to stabilize Egypt, however many Egyptians are now supporting him. Perhaps it's also because there is a crackdown against the protesters.
The man who dressed his mule as Sissi has been sentenced to one year of jail.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 09:59 AM by scarface »

November 24, 2014, 07:26 PM
Reply #36
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It is not possible for any country that has been forever ruled by dictators to become an constitutional democracy overnight. I agree that al-Sisi has stabilized the country and eliminated the Muslim Brotherhood. At least in that regard he's a savior. Let's hope he doesn't become another Mubarak.

April 02, 2016, 05:40 AM
Reply #37
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Today I’m going to hold a conference about Egypt.

Its "calligraphies", blends of calligraphy and graffiti, always held under their scrolls, abstract in appearance, a hidden meaning: quotations carefully chosen to tie the places, their history and their identity. With his latest work, the street artist El Seed pushed his action on an unprecedented scale, resulting in giving an international visibility to a poorly considered district of Cairo.

On March 15, the French of Tunisian origin, aged 34, revealed on social networks his tour de force: an anamorphosis covering nearly fifty buildings, and visible in its entirety only by taking a higher perspective, on the opposite hill. The words of this tangle of graffiti are then re-forming:  "If anyone wants to see the sunlight, he must rub his eyes. "A quote of Athanasius of Alexandria, a Coptic Bishop of the third century, a great figure of early Christianity, which summarizes the goal of El Seed", to  shed light "on the Coptic community organized around waste management of the town.

"In my new project, Perception, I question the judgments and misconceptions that the company may have unconsciously on a community, based on the differences. In the district of Manshiet Nasser, Cairo, the Coptic community Zaraeeb has been collecting garbage in the city for decades and has developed the most efficient recycling system and most profitable globally.

Yet this place is perceived as dirty, it is marginalized and kept apart." Like its inhabitants, the Zabbalin (" collectors ").
It’s an ecosystem developed in the 1940s, when Cairo was developed and gained momentum in the 1980s, becoming a real "gut" where urban waste of the city gathered after collection to be sorted . Here live some 65 000 people, mostly Coptic Christians. Life here has deteriorated from 2003, when the authorities under the regime of Hosni Mubarak, decided to entrust waste management to large international companies.

"The idea was to streamline the system and better serve poor neighborhoods neglected by Zabbalin. Then, in spring 2009, on the pretext of the outbreak of influenza A (H1N1), the government organized the slaughter of some 300,000 zabbalin pigs. However, animals fed on organic matter sorted by collectors. These two mutations have disrupted their situation, "explained in 2010 in the World report.

Despite outstanding performance in terms of recycling, the rate obtained by various private companies would reach 2% to 8%, against about 80% for Zabbalin" says journalist Hervé Kempf. In 2013, however, faced with the inefficiency of the official collections, the city was backing up under the leadership of the Ministry of Environment and the syndicate of Zabbalin, to finally formalize the work of forty-four local collection companies, involving some work for one thousand families.
El Seed honors the members of this shadow community, seen as outcasts. "We gave them the name" Zabaleen "(" the people of garbage "), but this is not how they call themselves. They did not live among the garbage, but live out of waste; and it is not their waste, but those of the entire town. They are the ones who clean the town of Cairo, "wrote the artist.
The adventure required a year of preparation for the artist and almost a month of work for teams on platforms suspended throughout the district. He described the immersion as "exceptional" with the locals, who supported this unique artistic project in Egypt. The operation was kept confidential throughout its implementation "to ensure that all goes well" in the town that barely tolerates evil artistic expressions in the streets.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 10:16 AM by scarface »