The Difference Engine

[Daniil]

Hello again.
That's "Л", trust me.  Well, yes, it's look a bit different, but that is "Л". Yeah, we, russians, are strange and unpredictable barbarians. 

Now to "Е". You absolutely correct, russian "Е" pronounced as "ye". But "Yeltsin" spelled as "Ельцин", yours english pronunciation isn't fully correct. There is soft sign ("ÑŒ") after "L", and more correct (for my russian ears) can be something like "Yel`tseen". "Y" is almost non-pronouncing, it's very short. For correct pronounciation you shoud say it fast and almost without "y", simple "L_yeneen", "yEltseen". Also if speak about "Й", it's very rare occures in the middle of the word. It's almost always at the end of the word. The examples can be "Юрий" - "Yuriy" (Gagarin), "Ð"еоргий" = "Georgiy" (Jukov), and so on. So, Stalin spelled like "СÑ,алин".

"Э" sounds mostly like yours Indefinite article "a". "A" in front of, for example, "a table" is almost like our "э". I can transliterate this like "э Ñ,эйбл".

No need to pardons, I'm glad to help you. 
Also, I'm not need to memorize locations of a letters. Here in Russia we use a dual-alphabet keyboards. For example, I have a Logitech G11 keyboard ant it have Latin and Cyrillic simbols. You can see it on the photo.

[humbert]

Hey Toвapищ !

Yes, I believe you when you said the letter on the mausoleum is Л and not Λ.    The confusion comes from the font that was used. It's also clear why the 2nd letter is E and not Э because if that were the case, then the man's name would be pronounced something like "Lanin"(incorrect) instead of "Lyeneen" or "Lieneen"(correct). In all this time I never realized the correct pronunciation. Your transliteration of "a table" was quite helpful.

Thanks for explaining about the soft sign. I'm also seeing there's a hard sign (Ъ). Is this also a silent letter that's meant to alter the pronunciation of another?

You transliterated Ð"eopгий's same as "Jukov", yet here they spell it as "Zhukov". Is the proper Cyrillic spelling "Жукoв" or "Юкoв" - or something else?

I saw your keyboard. Do you use Alt-LeftShift to switch between alphabets or is this done at the hardware level by flipping a switch on the keyboard? I don't know if you're running Windows 8, but if so you'd use Winkey-Spacebar, not Alt-LeftShift. I asked the question because the previous keyboard you sent a picture of didn't have Latin characters on it except those such as CapsLock or Esc.

[Daniil]

Yes, friend. A hard sign ("Ъ") is non-pronounce, but we use it to show hard pronunciation. Also, it's rare like "й". Before soviet language reform at (1920-s) it used at the end of almost each word. My name, for example, in pre-reform spelling should be printed as Ð"аниилъ. In fact, this was stupid, because most part of russian words ends with a hard pronounciation, and there is no need to write it always, that's already understandable ("by default"  ). After reform there was made an agreement, which says that hard sign must be written only in middle of words, where it really needs.
As example of using "ÑŠ" I can use word "объясняÑ,ÑŒ" (means "explaning"). It reads like "ob-yasnyat`". If we don't set "ÑŠ" after "б", we'll get wrong-spelling word "обясняÑ,ÑŒ",which pronounces like "obyasnyat". This pronounciation is illiterate.

Now, back to unusual computers theme.
One of most interesting computers was developed and manufactured in USSR since 1959 till 1972. That was "СеÑ,унь" ("Setun`"), developed by scientist group leaded by Nikolay Brusnetscov (Николай Ð'руснецов).
At a first glance this was an average big computer of that epoch. Physically it was a bunch of big metal cabinets with lamps and tumblers on their panels and with numerous count of transistors inside. System stats also was typical tor that time - latest model "СеÑ,унь-70" had a 200 kHz CPU, raw performance 4500 FLOPS, consumable power 2.5kWt (and it looks like that modern desktops with SLI of top videocards will soon get that!  ), input via perforated tape or via photo-reader, output via matrix printer...
"What's unusual?" - you ask.
Computers of "Setun`" series works with ternary logic.
It had no bits or bytes - it used trits and trytes.  A trit, unlike bit, can store 3 states - 0, 1, and 2. Tryte is an array of 9 trits. So, when byte can store only 256 states, tryte can store 19683 states. Because of that, ternary computers, with the same amount of memory, can use and store info much more efficient. That was also submitted by mathematical theory, which said that most efficient state of notation for saving information is one with radix 2,71... (Euler number). Radix 3 closer to Euler number, than radix 2.
Setun was very good computer for its time. But there was some troubles with hardware. Logical units for threnary computer is more difficult to develop and build, and, because of this, cost more money. Also, it was a bit difficult to program this computers, because where binary logic have two states - "yes" and "no", ternary logic have three states - "yes", "no" and "it depends!"  That was a bit difficult to work with that, but also it was better for practical applications - for example, if we constructing an autopilot we can use only one trit for control, where "1" can mean "a bit higher", "2" can mean "a bit lower", and "0" can mean "Yeah! All fine!".

That's all for today. It's a good weather outside, sun, clear sky, -20. I'll go for a walk. 

Update:
Oh, and some more, I forgot it when wrote a post.
If talk about "Zhukov" the correct russian spelling is "Жуков", and yes, "Zhukov" transliteration is more correct, yes.
And as about keyboard - I use Ctrl-Shift. I prefer this more than Alt-Shift, because Ctrl-Shift is like in DOS, first OS I saw.

[humbert]

@Daniil
Certainly I understand what you mean by teriary - basically you're using a base 3 numeration system. What I don't fully understand is how they managed to get their computers to understand "maybe" when that concept is inherent to human brains or maybe analog computers. This is, of course, unless it means the calculation has to wait on what others did before deciding.

Let me ask you something else. Nicholas II and Ivan the Terrible were Tsars or Czars. Is that Цap or Жap - or neither?

DOS - ahh.. yes, I remember it perfectly. I often wonder what many people would do today if they were looking at C:\> instead of nice icons to click on.

[Daniil]

@humbert
I don't know exactly how they dealed the problem of "maybe" state. I never saw that computers in real. Last "Setun`" was disassembled at 1986, as I know... All that I heared, that "maybe" was on this ternary systems as a result of dividing by zero and other such operations. They somehow linked "maybe" state to a mathematical uncertainty. Also that mathematical uncertainty had used as values of variable. Other details is unknown to me.

About Tsar - it writing as "Царь", and pronounced as "tsar`". Also, it's correct for Ivan IV The Terrible, but Nikolay II is "His Majesty The Emperor", and tsar is only one of his title.

Also, Ivan IV isn't "The Terrible". He called "Иван Ð"розный" (pronounce as "Ivan Grozniy"), and "Terrible" isn't correct translation. "Ð"розный" don't have bad color in it like "terrible" term, in my opinion, "redoubtable" would be better translation.

I don't know what people would do today if were they look at C:\>, but in that case Internet were be much more clear and easy for searching!

[humbert]

@Daniil

One thing I do know is if Setun (or any other system) really worked, not only the Russians but everyone else would have adopted the system. Regardless of how the system was designed to word, as I see it the fact they closed it down says a lot. It's also no coincidence that it happened in 1986, which is about the time when PC's and Macs were starting to become mainstream.

I noticing that Цapь has a soft sign. Is this to downgrade pronunciation of the final P?

I don't know why Ivan here is referred to as "Ivan the Terrible". I'm thinking it's because (according to what I've heard) that the man was a psychopath who enjoyed torturing prisoners and other such things. I imagine the Cyrillic spelling of his name is do to a different pronunciation - I'd think it was Ð"poзний. According to my tablet Ñ‹ is "yeru" - doesn't that have a Y sound like in "yes"?

[Daniil]

Well, in Silicon valley there was also developments for ternary computers, at 2008 they built TCA2.0 ternary system. Don't know the details.
Also, I don't say that today computers is a crap because they are binary. That's the expected pattern of evolution of computing systems - old and weird dinosaurs like Setun replaced with more effective, more competitive models. PC's and Gorbachev's "pyerestroyka" kills russian computer industry, that was not bad and not good, that was evolution. But that process was very interesting, because it clearly shows flow of evolution process, and a similarity between economical/technological and life evolution.

Царь pronounciation like Tsar', "r" is soft and ringing.

I heared that Ivan IV psyhopathy caused by unlucky love, he was first "Alone in the Network". He had a great "mail romance" with English Queen, and when she selected another men, that's make tsar angry and madness.

Ы... Ы-Ñ‹-Ñ‹-Ñ‹-Ñ‹-Ñ‹-Ñ‹-Ñ‹-Ñ‹...... U-u-u-u-u-u.....  How to explain that for you?.. That's really difficult!.. Ы pronounces like something is something between R and U, but closer to I. In fact, "yeru" name is very good for it, bur we calls it just "Ы".
Watch this clip, cutted out from "Операция Ы" ("Operation Y"), famous russian comedy filmed at 1965. At 0:09 one of thieves said pure "Ы".

[humbert]

@Daniil
I don't remember saying something about binary computers being crap, or that you said it. All I said was that in every situation I've seen so far (and not just in computing), when extensive testing demonstrates that a system being tested is indeed not a better mousetrap (as we say here), then it just fades away. This is clearly the case of ternary computing. If indeed the system had proven itself to be generally better, rest assured it would have caught on like fire. Naturally, when I say "better" I mean all around. Anything can be better but might have an Achilles Heel that will kill it.

Did Pyerestroyka stop the Russian computer industry because government funding stopped and the programmers were not prepared to go commercial? Or is there another reason?

The pronunciation of "Tsar" is what I believed, i.e., the soft sign is there to water down the pronunciation of P (equivalent to R in Latin alphabet). I also watched the clip and even read underneath, so I was able to follow along and notice the pronunciation. I know perfectly how hard it is when a sound that exists in one language doesn't exist in another nor can it be easily replicated by a group of letters. I've run into this situation going from English to Spanish and back.

[Shadow.97]

Hello again.
That's "Л", trust me.  Well, yes, it's look a bit different, but that is "Л". Yeah, we, russians, are strange and unpredictable barbarians. 

Now to "Е". You absolutely correct, russian "Е" pronounced as "ye". But "Yeltsin" spelled as "Ельцин", yours english pronunciation isn't fully correct. There is soft sign ("ÑŒ") after "L", and more correct (for my russian ears) can be something like "Yel`tseen". "Y" is almost non-pronouncing, it's very short. For correct pronounciation you shoud say it fast and almost without "y", simple "L_yeneen", "yEltseen". Also if speak about "Й", it's very rare occures in the middle of the word. It's almost always at the end of the word. The examples can be "Юрий" - "Yuriy" (Gagarin), "Ð"еоргий" = "Georgiy" (Jukov), and so on. So, Stalin spelled like "СÑ,алин".

"Э" sounds mostly like yours Indefinite article "a". "A" in front of, for example, "a table" is almost like our "э". I can transliterate this like "э Ñ,эйбл".

No need to pardons, I'm glad to help you. 
Also, I'm not need to memorize locations of a letters. Here in Russia we use a dual-alphabet keyboards. For example, I have a Logitech G11 keyboard ant it have Latin and Cyrillic simbols. You can see it on the photo.

Always wondered how Russian's keyboards work, can you show the whole keyboard?? We don't have the same layout on the keys(The one provided is a little bit hard to see from the angle of the camera) I noticed your ~ is to the left of "1" where we have §, and our ~is to the left of enter, and right of "å"

[Daniil]

@Daniil
Did Pyerestroyka stop the Russian computer industry because government funding stopped and the programmers were not prepared to go commercial? Or is there another reason?

At a glance yes, but there is some other very interesting and deeper reasons. It'svery interesting to investigate that process, because it shows very interesting economical differences between soviet and west economics, shows links between economic and technical evolution and also is close to different interesting computer questions. I even wrote a course work about this at my institute at previous year.

What was the main differences between soviet and western economics? That was firstly, a planning and, then, a private ownership.
Planning also exists in western economics, but there is one very important difference - western planning is "dynamical", i.e., any plan includes variants for good and bad events flowing. Any modern business plan can be an example.
Soviet planning was "solid". There was one central target - to build communism!!! -  and any planning follows this. And because of that plans was closer to army-like orders: "Do N thousands of pieces of bread (rockets/AK's/cakes/trucks) till XX.YY.19XX, obey without questions!"
Private onership in fact exists at USSR (the legends about "nothing private", exists at western countries, was incorrect). You could be owner of a pen, or your clothes, or for example, TV... (Not a car, and also not a room/house. Because any car was registered in army and in case of war was requested for army use, and any house was in ownership of country, which rent it for you (but for a lifetime and on very good conditions, also if you haven't one, they specifically find housing for you)) But you coudn't have a business in private property, that was a crime.

Soviet computer industry followed this rules. That's why in USSR was very good big computers, and (before Pyerestroyka) was absolutelly no PC's (and even a thoughts about them). That's easy to explain. If here is no private business, you don't need a private computing power. As you can remember, first Intel x86 computers was adverted as tools for finance groups, for small and medium business, like a machine for easy and cheap bookkeeping. In USSR was no need for such machines, because there was no small or medium business at all. All workshops and machinery plants was government-owned and very big, almost all of them had a big computer in special laboratory (so called Calculating Center), and bookkeeping (which was also very simple at socialistic economic) was executing on this computer, like a one of secondary, not important tasks.
After the Pyerestroyka came and that idiot Gorbachev raised to power, he said, that "We, tassazat, must overtake the USA and Europe in the computer industry!" Idea was good, but they in government (like in many other times!) don't knew the way to overtake. And they started to copy western PCs. Sometimes that was good copies (Russian "Agat" was very good clone of "Apple II"), sometimes that was fully russian inventions (like PCs based on Warzshaw Pact PDP-11 architecture, slowly but stable, reliable and not bad at all), sometimes that was a fully crap, like ES-series PCs. But the main problem of them was their useless for economics. This PCs have no buyers - they was useless for big plants and factories, and common peoples can't buy it.
For a time this computers was used in schools, but there was another problem. Most of PCs setted up in schools was ES-series PCs. ES was an clone of Intel 8086 system, with extended memory and other stuff, not bad at all, but... They was extended in a soviet style - they was connected into a kind of a local network, called Classroom Computer System. Only the main (tecaher's) computer had a disc drives, floppy drives and other. Other computers connects to it and downloads a programs into a memory, You can understand, how slow and unstable it worked (with those amounts of memory and bandwidths). Also, if one of PC's turns off, all classroom network turns off. So, that was a real crap, and a very price crap - only the best schools (Or one which was under control of a big factories) can got that Classroom Computer System.
Pyerestroyka goes on, soviet PCs layed in dust at storehouses or worked at schools, big economic didn't need in them. But planning system worked, so - "Obey without questions! Make that PCs!! Communism!!! We'll overtake them!!!" Then all started to understand - no, we can't overtake, that's bad idea!
Gorbachev was removed from throne, bounds was opened, and big factories (except the military ones) started to die out. Soviet PCs already was useless to anyone, and after on russian market found first western PC, soviet ES and other was doomed. Western PCs was more primitive at architecture, and price 3 times more, but, because of frequency and memory was 10 times more powerfull. Also, they was highly standartized, had a variety of add-ons, repair parts and modules, and, which is more important - very good software for any applications. So, markets for business was occupied by IBM-PC compatible machines and markets for private buyers was filled with old Intel PCs and ZX-Spectrums. That was an end of soviet computers history, and the beginning of new age.