congratulations to all Muslims fasting of Ramadan 1435 H
starting at June 28 2014 ends with idul fitri 1435 H at July 28 2014
Welcome Ramadan
Regards
Ismet iih
In fact, the ramadan will begin on sunday and not saturday. At least that the decision which has been taken by the French Muslim Cult. Those who are in favour of the astronomical calculations can begin to fast today, indeed.
(I guess it's going to be hard for iih if he's the guy in the avatar, he won't smoke as many joints).
What's important is to have a good meal after the sunset. It can be a feast with your family.
Personally I will try do to it one day next week and if I'm resistant enough, perhaps longer.
What I think about iih? well, only good things. He seems concerned about malware, and I'm wondering what kind of sites he's browsing (I wasn't really looking for information about him in fact). As for his avatar, I'm sure it's not him, the guy seems to be too old and it seems he's using different avatars.
You know, It's a shame that I don't have time to travel, because I wouldn't only go to Cairo but probably to the overpopulated island of Java. I don't think Jakarta is really a cultural town, but it is said to be a good place to live. It's teeming with people everywhere, and they are happy. I guess iih is like that, insouciant and absent-minded, the kind of guy who doesn't care about what tomorrow will be made.
Quote from: usmangujjar on June 28, 2014, 05:48 PM
may ALLAH bless all Muslims.
What about the rest of us? Don't we get blessed too?
What's your religion humbert? probably Catholic like me I guess. Gujjar thinks there is only one god, Allah, and if you're not Muslim, you will hardly blessed by the god of the Muslims. But as I said in one old post, the Christian, Jewish and Muslim religions have the same origin: Abraham. And these 3 religions are monotheistic. What's more, for these religions, God is unique.
If we agree on these postulates, then we have a unique and common God. But unlike Muslims, for the Christians, God has no name, let's call him God, or "Pater noster", as the Pope would do.
The believers of these 3 religions have not the same customs (Jesus was probably too busy doing miracles to tell his apostles that God had forbidden pork!) Anyway, we have probably the same God.
I'm not sure that everyone here will agree with that, but your silence will be considered as an approval.
Gujjar who seems to be a religious specialist certainly know every name of Allah.
In fact he has 99 names, some of whom are: Ar-Rahman, Al-Malik, Al-Quddus, As-Salam, Al-Mu’min, Al-Mouhaymin, Al-‘Aziz, Al-Jabbar, Al-Mutakabbir...
Quote from: humbert on June 29, 2014, 01:57 AM
Quote from: usmangujjar on June 28, 2014, 05:48 PM
may ALLAH bless all Muslims.
What about the rest of us? Don't we get blessed too?
May GOD bless you All..
An interesting topic indeed.
Scarface -> I was born a Catholic, but I left the religion many years ago. Today I follow no religion, you could say I'm an agnostic. Naturally I have respect for all faiths provided they do not proselityze, i.e., engage in altering laws to suit their beliefs, or worse, attempt to forcibly convert others.
Also, your comment regarding the fact that most Muslims on our forum openly and very often express their religious beliefs prompts another question. Since rarely do we see this in Christians despite the fact that there are more Christians than Muslim, I wonder if Muslim indoctrination is so intense so as to eliminate any possiblity of what happened to me many years ago, i.e., sitting back and questioning my beliefs.
gujjar -> how do you reply to Scarface's questions? It it true that they do not educate you as to what other religions believe in social studies or geography class? I ask because I realize that, as a Muslim, you would probably not be aware of the details regarding Catholicism and other forms of Christianity, but certainly you should have been taught the very basics. I'd also like to hear your comments regarding "indoctrination" as I mentioned above. Finally, be advised my questions are always for my own education, never for proselyzation.
gujjar -> You haven't said anything bad. I was just curious about why it is that most Muslims I know express their beliefs all the time, and yet almost none of the Christians or other religions don't do that. To say it another way, Aamost all non-Muslims on this forum just come to talk about the different topics we discuss here. The only way you know their religion is by asking them, otherwise they don't discuss it. By comparison, most Muslims here almost all sigs saying "Allah akbar" (or similar). Can you or any other Muslim on here explain to me why this is?
As for your education, were you ever taught in school the basics about other religions, such as what they believe and what parts of the globe they occupy?
Note: all these are simply questions to satisfy my curiosity, at no time do I accuse anyone of proselization or disrespect for others' beliefs.
Hello everyone :)
Sorry for being late ..
This is my opinion replying to your posts..
QuoteI was just curious about why it is that most Muslims I know express their beliefs all the time
For me, I do that as a way to tell others (who don't know) that there is a religion called Islam and there is a prophet called Muhammad (Peace be upon him and all the prophets)..
After that he can search about that and he can choose freely to believe what he wants.
Why I do that? because Allah told us to tell others to try to know well about him before it's too late.
It's not acceptable for me in Islam to hide useful knowledge from the others.. as they may listen, do, and even be better than me.
QuoteIve noticed that the persons who are talking very often about religion, or those who are inflexible, are usually the ones who have poor knowledge about it. They know the name of God, perhaps the name of a prophet, that's all. They don't know the precepts nor the origin of their religion.
I agree that there are many people have poor knowledge about religion and like to talk about it.. In fact, for some, this may be their only relationship to religion.. TALKING!!
But not all of them.
As there are some people like to know the origin of everything and go deeper and deeper in their religion and apply it to the reality and reach one of 2 ways :
Increase in belief and move from uncertainty to certainty or lose faith completely.
For me, actually I know well about all the mentioned prophets and their stories and this is also from the holy Qur'an and from our prophet .. and that is a reason you'll see many Muslims mention Allah and his prophet in a lot of their talking because they are a huge source of information for us about many aspects of life (not religion only).
Quotethe Christian, Jewish and Muslim religions have the same origin: Abraham. And these 3 religions are monotheistic. What's more, for these religions, God is unique.
If we agree on these postulates, then we have a unique and common God.
***
The believers of these 3 religions have not the same customs
I agree that there is only one God who sent all the prophets, and he sent every prophet to his people with a specific mission. All the missions have the same principles that God is one and only, and he sends all the prophets ..etc. But these missions differ in some orders and prohibitions according to the circumstances then.
That was my opinion according to my beliefs which are not yours but this doesn't mind that I'm happy to have all of you as friends.
:)
Another important thing to clarify.. "Questioning my beliefs"
We are told to think deeply and learn about everything we can so as to differentiate the right from the wrong and use our mind to judge things.
We are also told to search about the origin of creation..
If you watch documentaries about space and universe, you will hear them saying that the whole universe started with a single point (singularity) of high energy, and with size zero i.e. came from nothing and this point exploded to form the universe (according to the big bang theory).
According to people who deny God existence, they say that all the rearrangement of the universe galaxies after explosion came by coincidence..
OK, if this was true, then from where did this first point come ?!!
And how did a mass or energy come from nothing ?!
And saying that this amazing rearrangement in the universe after an explosion came by coincidence, is (for me) like saying that some pieces of junk, iron and Aluminum were exposed to a storm and the result was the formation of an airplane Boeing 777 for example !!
There must be a master that first created that point from nothing, and set the rules that will control what results from it, like time and gravity, and made the explosion with very complicated calculations beyond man mind to become the universe we see today.
Another thing about the origin of species ..
According to Darwin, All the creatures came from common ancestor (single cell)..
If this was right, then, from where did the first cell come?
Don't tell me that the cell with its complicated minute structures, membrane with its channels and gates, nucleus with its chromosomes and genes and organelles came by coincidence as a result of some chemical reactions !!
Then why can't we create a similar cell by a chemical reaction between organic substances ?!
Another thing about baby creation during pregnancy ..
Watch documentaries about that too, and see how a single cell divides many times to become a piece of meat and after that a group of cells differentiate to create a specific organ and another group differentiate to create another different organ.
How does this happen ?!
and why didn't all the cells do the same behavior ?!
This also has complicated rules and surely these rules and this elegant system did not come by coincidence.
...
All of the above leads me to believe that God exists and he created all of this.
He created me and told me that I won't see him but I'll see his existence clearly in his creation. All I have to do is think, learn about sciences and search about the origin of creation, but not search about the origin of his existence because as long as I reached the fact that there must be a God who created all of this, consequently, I also reached the fact that he created me with a mind that is able to understand only the rules in this universe NOT the rules beyond it.
...
Regarding Why does God allow bad things to happen to us ?
Bad things happened also to prophets who are the most beloved people to God.
Does this mean that God hated them or was punishing them ?
NO and they knew that.
They knew that God was testing their patience to know who is better than who.. Also some good things come from the happening of those bad things.. Also some bad things happen to us to make us think about a specific matter and conclude something that helps us after that.
You may say that this is some way of education.
================
All of my previous talking was about God existence, but why do I believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him and all the prophets) is a prophet ?
Others say that he wrote the Qur'an and the Qur'an is not from Allah !!
Then why did a man bother himself writing about things that he had no clear knowledge about before ?!
Like the universe and what in the heavens although he had no Hubble telescope or NASA !!,
and what happens under the sea although he didn't dive in it nor even be on its surface by any means !!,
and the details of baby creation in the womb although he had no electronic microscope !!
How on earth did he know about things like that 14 centuries ago with no means of technology at that time, and there is no one mistake in anything he said ?!
With the recent discoveries in space, embryology and other sciences, We discover new things in the Qur'an that we didn't know before and we see that the Qur'an mentioned some of them 14 centuries ago in an easy way for the Arabs to understand then.
So Muhammad (peace be upon him and all the prophets) didn't say the Qur'an from his own mind nor from a previous experience, but he said what Allah told him to say.
================
I'm telling all of that not to say I'm right and others are wrong but to clarify that I'm Muslim not only because I was born Muslim, but also because I searched hard and found evidences that Allah exists and Muhammad is a prophet who didn't tell a lie (peace be upon him and all the prophets).
I'm also telling that to clarify that since this is my case, there must be a lot of Muslims much better than me, think better than me and have better knowledge than me.
The typical Muslim that Islam seeks is not what you see in Media, nor what you see in many Muslims nowadays (unfortunately). So, don't misjudge all the Muslims or Islam.
With all respect,
Ahmad :)
I didn't read the koran, but the Bible, and it's said that God created Earth the first day and human the second with the story of Adam and Eve.
So the mighty spirit of God decided to create man (now the phylosophical question is: is man superior to the other species, does he have the right to exterminate the others?)
But if we study the darwinian theory, man hasn't come out of nowhere. There was no man 1 million years ago, only remote cousins like australopithecus. So it's obvious there has been an evolution, we can't deny that. Perhaps the creation of earth was the will of a holy spirit, anyway since its creation some physical elements show that everything can be explained rationnaly.
And perhaps that man is going to disappear too, leaving some room for a new specie to thrive in the coming centuries (dont forget the predicament of the reindeer of st Matthews).
the darwinian theory:
(https://i.ibb.co/8zM73wp/sy0314ec.jpg)
QuoteHuman being is totally different than any other living thing
from gujjar.
I have a few questions,for you gujjar, you can take some time to answer.
1) Dinosaurs were present on earth well before Man. Man only appeared 6000 years ago, at least modern man, and the current civilisation is only 2 centuries old.
Then do you think that man is superior to the other species due to its intelligence?
2) In 200 years the world has changed like never before, due to man, who has imposed almost everywhere his presence. Anyway, there are wars, fighting for ressources or confessional struggles. Do you think that Man is respecting the will of god like austerity, fraternity and humility?
3) The Bible says "Multiply and be fruitful" (The koran is probably saying the same thing).
In a world where we are already 7 billion, do you think that it would be responsible to have a lot of children? In which world we are going to live if we are ten billion in 20 years?
Will there be enough food for such a population, or will there be famines?
First of all, Darwin's findings (not theory!) deal with natural selection, i.e., species that are better suited to survive pass those genes on to their posterity, and those that don't die off. This is the engine that drives evolution. There is no mention of creation in his writings.
Ahmad: please clarify one thing for me - do you believe that the god of the Christians, Jews and Muslims is the one and the same, or are we talking 2 false gods (the Christian and Jewish one) and one true god (Allah)? If it's the same one, then can you tell me why he dictated different sets of rules for these 3 religions?
This is my opinion - I have a big issue with the concept of faith. Those who ask us to believe based on faith - regardless of their religion - do not have to substantiate their claims scientifically. You must believe because they tell you so or simply because a man-written book (Bible, Koran, Torah, etc) says so. Another thing I have a big problem with - why does god want to be worshipped? If so then he's an egotistical, narcissistic megalomaniac - a very human trait seen often in dictators! It seems to me it is humans that created the many gods that exist to explain away that which there is no clear explanation. These are just a few reasons I left Catholicism and follow no religion today - I was wise enough to question the entire concept of religion, not just Christianity - and this despite intense indoctrination included being filled with fear of ending up in hell. As I see it, if those believers who taught me are going to heaven, then leave me in hell - I don't want to go where they're going.
Changing the topic - Ahmad, is that your picture? If so, you look like Hozni. :)
I just read wikipedia about Darwin...
His fundings have been accepted by the Church, in spite of being against what is written in the genesis with the creation of Man.
in an autobiography he's speaking about him too:
"I cannot pretend to throw the least light on such abstruse problems. The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an Agnostic."
As for the different rules, don't forget there have been several prophets.
First, I totally disagree with Darwin findings ..
Because Allah (God) created Adam (peace be upon all the prophets) from clay.
How did he evolute from apes, then ?!
Yes, man is superior to all other creatures because he is the only creature that God give him the free will to do anything he wants with being aware of what he is doing, either good or evil, and that's why you see him doing the evil things today.
But also, God informed him that he is free to do what he wants during life, However there will be a certain day he will receive the consequences of his previous actions.
Darwin was so wrong because if you know the minute details of the structure of different living creatures, you'll find out how ridiculous his thinking was. He had a very superficial perspective about life.
For me, I studied the structure of human being and how it works.. It's impossible that all of this came by coincidence and came from a primitive cell that also came by coincidence as a result of some chemical organic reactions.
He also was wrong because nobody can prove how the first cell appeared on earth.
Plus, there were no intermediate creatures as an evolution link between different species.
Every species on earth appeared (was created) suddenly just as Adam appeared on earth suddenly after God created him..
And there are creatures still the same as they were millions years ago, like dragonfly for example.. Why didn't they evolute over time ?!
I'm wondering.. Why people believe a very ridiculous idea which is evolution, and do not believe the more reasonable idea of being created by God ?!
Why always anything concerning God is being rejected ?!
I see that it's some sort of arrogance in human being over time, although he is so weak, and he will find out how weak he is when he stands with complete silence in front of his creator.
Quotedo you believe that the god of the Christians, Jews and Muslims is the one and the same, or are we talking 2 false gods (the Christian and Jewish one) and one true god (Allah)?
Yes, the God of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad and all the prophets (Peace be upon them) is the one and the same.
He is the one who sent all the prophets and he has no partner nor son nor wife. If the current Christians and Jewish also believe that, then, we all now worship The same God.
QuoteIf it's the same one, then can you tell me why he dictated different sets of rules for these 3 religions?
I said that in my previous posts.
And this is just my opinion because I'm not qualified to answer those questions in details of religions, as this is not my job :)
Every nation had their own circumstances because they live in different times with different means of living, and God sees that, so he sent the prophets to them with sets of rules that coincide with their lives and also are easy for them to apply.. i.e. not impossible.
But if you think about the most important thing in all religions, you'll see that God wants us to worship him alone without partners.. This is the same in all religions, and the difference is in the other minor things in life details, habits and so on.
QuoteThose who ask us to believe based on faith - regardless of their religion - do not have to substantiate their claims scientifically.
I proved that God exists scientifically in the previous long post about creation of the universe.
Plus, review history of prophets and their evil nations and see how their ending was.. This is also a proof that God exists who punishes who are arrogant to worship him.
I knew Allah by the Qur'an and by what they told me, but I become sure about his existence by science, reading and deep impartial thinking, not by telling me so. And also by putting me in the place that I might be the wrong one and others may be right, and measuring different matters and judging them to reach the most impartial right result.
QuoteAnother thing I have a big problem with - why does god want to be worshipped? If so then he's an egotistical, narcissistic megalomaniac
Note that God is not a man like us, so don't apply our rules on him.
He is not a man who asks you to worship him. Then he would be like what you said.
But he created you.. i.e. you were nothing before he created you. So, whatever you did, you can't repay him for this one thing. But he just wants you to obey his rules.
If you don't accept that, think impartially.. Don't you see that you are the one who is too egotistical to accept your creator's rules. Isn't it possible that you may be wrong ?!
(I'm talking in general, not meaning you (humbert) specifically).
Again I'm telling my own way of thinking and my own point of view, nothing else.
QuoteChanging the topic - Ahmad, is that your picture? If so, you look like Hozni.
Yes, this is me. :)
Ahmad -> suffice I to say I disagree with you, but hey, we're friends and friends respect each other beliefs! :) ;) My post was not to start a debate, but rather so you'll how how I think in the same way I know what you think. See?
Believe or not..
I swear I was preparing myself to say the same thing today.
I totally agree with you, specially in this precious part:
Quotewe're friends and friends respect each other beliefs! :) ;)
Thanks, my dear friend :)
Ahmad told us that man was created by god and that he believed than man was superior to all other creatures. Well, Ahmad is not a half-believer and what he says is just was he has read in the sacred texts and I'm not here to say that it's true or false.
Anyway I'm going to give my own opinion, and you know that I'm a freethinker and that I'm not influenced by any text.
First I think that man is not superior to anything. A baboon is as precious as a Man whether it is created by God or not.
Hundreds of years ago, Man was living in accordance with nature. And nature was precious. That's why the divinities of Egypt had heads of birds, crocodiles or monkeys. These animals were not only part of tales but they were also part of the lives of the people.
Today and with the rise of the religions as we know them, these icons have disappeared. By the way our religions are iconoclast: God is not pictured.
Therefore, all of us think that God is ideal and that he's somehow the father of humanity, putting aside the other species, but I think it's only a false representation of God.
Second point, Ahmad told us that Man was created by God.
Well I can only notice that Man is the only specie which is a predator for practically all the others, but for himself too. Have you even seen a baboon coolly killing another baboon? The 19th century has showed things that couldn't have been tolerated by a protective God. And we have to wonder if there is not something demonic in each man. Therefore if God has created every specie, is this true for Man too, and is this a mistake of God?
(https://i.ibb.co/NNvDcBf/devil-vs-jesus-by-ongchewpeng.jpg)
The devil vs Jesus
wow, so interesting this thread, just move on ::)
Quote from: usmangujjar on July 09, 2014, 04:22 PM
interested,, but i think it will be deleted or closed.
That'll happen only if a viscious debate comes about. All we're doing is discussing and expressing each other's convictions so we can learn about each other. Nobody's trying to impose their beliefs on anyone.
A debate and a discussion are very different things.
Quote from: humbert on July 10, 2014, 03:17 AM
Quote from: usmangujjar on July 09, 2014, 04:22 PM
interested,, but i think it will be deleted or closed.
That'll happen only if a viscious debate comes about. All we're doing is discussing and expressing each other's convictions so we can learn about each other. Nobody's trying to impose their beliefs on anyone.
A debate and a discussion are very different things.
Me agreed ...Nobody's trying to impose their beliefs on anyone.
sorry just active again, due my study....anyway Happy Ramadan to all muslims people,
may ALLAH bless you All. love and peace.
♥ Mozcha ♥
I've just seen that Maher has released an updated xp. He is probably fine.
I hope that my audience enjoyed the conference yesterday, you were quite numerous on the forum.
I've exposed a point of view, and maybe you can understand it. I think there is no truth to look for as I told Gujjar anyway. Well, this is perhaps a modern point of view, and some people around you might not understand what I say, no need to talk to them about divinities with crocodile's heads...
You know, what can be shocking in a society, can be normal in another one. For example, Ive got a colleague (woman) who has a young child and who is living with a woman (the other woman is not the biological father I imagine). Im not sure this would be accepted in Ahmad's country.
Im currently at work, but it's cold today here. Weird weather for july.
Allah's mercy & blessings to all for the coming of the Holy Month.. (a bit late)..
cha -> glad to have you back. May I ask - are you a Muslim? Also, what does '♥ Mozcha ♥' mean? Naturally the questions are based only on curiosity. Also, your avatar is gorgeous. Is that you or did you download it somewhere?
aa1234779 -> what part of this planet are you from?
scarface:
In short, everyone has his own beliefs and I can't make others able to see what I see, or think in the same way I think because everyone has a huge database in his brain from which his thoughts come.
As for me,
Allah created us, put some clues in his creation and gave us mind to use it to follow these clues and think. If we do this, we'll reach the fact that he is the creator, without need to any sacred texts.
Let me ask you..
I f I told you that a plane or even a chair appeared by coincidence (without man intervention), would you believe me ?!
Since we can't deny that every plane has a maker (man), why do we deny the fact that man also does have a maker (God) ?!
So, finally.. my advice is to watch documentaries about different life forms and their very different structures in detail, and think how this might begin by coincidence, or how one form might come from another.. (Birds from reptiles, for example), and try to prove it scientifically.
Decide by yourself.
Good luck :)
QuoteI f I told you that a plane or even a chair appeared by coincidence (without man intervention), would you believe me ?!
Since we can't deny that every plane has a maker (man), why do we deny the fact that man also does have a maker (God) ?!
For the first question I wouldn't believe you. For the second question, I have no answer to give. I don't deny that something may have created the live on earth. I'm just skeptical about the creation of man who is for me a product of evolution.
But I don't know if your example is good, because it's a kind of sophism, in the sense that you're talking about an obvious invention of Man, to deduce that the creation of Man was obviously made by God.
A plane is a product made by man out of materials. Perhaps God created these materials too. But Man created the plane. It's only a recent product though, which was due to progress and the need for travel or transport of merchandise (but as I already said we can wonder if progress is a good thing or not when we study our societies, which have become individualist, based on money, and the environmental and social costs linked to that).
As for the creation of Man I have no idea. If I knew of if I could talk to God and whether it would be positive or not, I would be a prophet, but I'm not claiming that.
Ahmad -> question for you: As you know, Maher is also a devout sunni Muslim. He has a beard and told me he can't cut it for religious reasons, in fact he can't even trim it. Why don't you have a beard? Do you know why so many other Muslim men have beards?
Quote from: humbert on July 11, 2014, 05:08 AM
aa1234779 -> what part of this planet are you from?
I remember we're past that question friend.. ;D
Quote from: humbert on July 15, 2014, 03:27 AM
Ahmad -> question for you: As you know, Maher is also a devout sunni Muslim. He has a beard and told me he can't cut it for religious reasons, in fact he can't even trim it. Why don't you have a beard? Do you know why so many other Muslim men have beards?
Many Muslims have beards because We know that our prophet (pbuh) had one, so they love to do like him.
As for me, I'm not used to it.
aa1234779 -> You're saying I inquired about your location before and probably forgot about it? Be that as it may, are you Egyptian?
Ahmad -> So the reason many Muslim guys have beards is for no other reason that to copy Mohammed? There is no religious obligation or other benefit?
Quote from: humbert on July 16, 2014, 06:40 AMAhmad -> So the reason many Muslim guys have beards is for no other reason that to copy Mohammed?
Some of them > Yes, they do their best to do exactly as our prophet did in everything (peace be upon him and all the prophets).
Others have beard because they want it.
Others don't care about their look at all, sometimes with a beard, and sometimes without.
Quote from: humbert on July 16, 2014, 06:40 AMAhmad -> There is no religious obligation or other benefit?
I don't know the precise rule about this matter in religion.
I focus more on those matters related to relationship and good manners because this is the purpose of the religion.