Muslims fasting of Ramadan 1435 H

[scarface]

I didn't read the koran, but the Bible, and it's said that God created Earth the first day and human the second with the story of Adam and Eve.
So the mighty spirit of God decided to create man (now the phylosophical question is: is man superior to the other species, does he have the right to exterminate the others?)
But if we study the darwinian theory, man hasn't come out of nowhere. There was no man 1 million years ago, only remote cousins like australopithecus. So it's obvious there has been an evolution, we can't deny that. Perhaps the creation of earth was the will of a holy spirit, anyway since its creation some physical elements show that everything can be explained rationnaly.
And perhaps that man is going to disappear too, leaving some room for a new specie to thrive in the coming centuries (dont forget the predicament of the reindeer of st Matthews).

the darwinian theory:

[scarface]

Human being is totally different than any other living thing

from gujjar.

I have a few questions,for you gujjar, you can take some time to answer.
1) Dinosaurs were present on earth well before Man. Man only appeared 6000 years ago, at least modern man, and the current civilisation is only 2 centuries old.
Then do you think that man is superior to the other species due to its intelligence?
2) In 200 years the world has changed like never before, due to man, who has imposed almost everywhere his presence. Anyway, there are wars, fighting for ressources or confessional struggles. Do you think that Man is respecting the will of god like austerity, fraternity and humility?
3) The Bible says "Multiply and be fruitful" (The koran is probably saying the same thing).
In a world where we are already 7 billion, do you think that it would be responsible to have a lot of children? In which world we are going to live if we are ten billion in 20 years?
Will there be enough food for such a population, or will there be famines?

[humbert]

First of all, Darwin's findings (not theory!) deal with natural selection, i.e., species that are better suited to survive pass those genes on to their posterity, and those that don't die off. This is the engine that drives evolution. There is no mention of creation in his writings.

Ahmad: please clarify one thing for me - do you believe that the god of the Christians, Jews and Muslims is the one and the same, or are we talking 2 false gods (the Christian and Jewish one) and one true god (Allah)? If it's the same one, then can you tell me why he dictated different sets of rules for these 3 religions?

This is my opinion - I have a big issue with the concept of faith. Those who ask us to believe based on faith - regardless of their religion - do not have to substantiate their claims scientifically. You must believe because they tell you so or simply because a man-written book (Bible, Koran, Torah, etc) says so. Another thing I have a big problem with - why does god want to be worshipped? If so then he's an egotistical, narcissistic megalomaniac - a very human trait seen often in dictators! It seems to me it is humans that created the many gods that exist to explain away that which there is no clear explanation. These are just a few reasons I left Catholicism and follow no religion today - I was wise enough to question the entire concept of religion, not just Christianity - and this despite intense indoctrination included being filled with fear of ending up in hell. As I see it, if those believers who taught me are going to heaven, then leave me in hell - I don't want to go where they're going.

Changing the topic - Ahmad, is that your picture? If so, you look like Hozni. 

[scarface]

I just read wikipedia about Darwin...
His fundings have been accepted by the Church, in spite of being against what is written in the genesis with the creation of Man.
in an autobiography he's speaking about him too:
"I cannot pretend to throw the least light on such abstruse problems. The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us; and I for one must be content to remain an Agnostic."
As for the different rules, don't forget there have been several prophets.

[Ahmad]

First, I totally disagree with Darwin findings ..
Because Allah (God) created Adam (peace be upon all the prophets) from clay.
How did he evolute from apes, then ?!

Yes, man is superior to all other creatures because he is the only creature that God give him the free will to do anything he wants with being aware of what he is doing, either good or evil, and that's why you see him doing the evil things today.
But also, God informed him that he is free to do what he wants during life, However there will be a certain day he will receive the consequences of his previous actions.

Darwin was so wrong because if you know the minute details of the structure of different living creatures, you'll find out how ridiculous his thinking was. He had a very superficial perspective about life.
For me, I studied the structure of human being and how it works.. It's impossible that all of this came by coincidence and came from a primitive cell that also came by coincidence as a result of some chemical organic reactions.

He also was wrong because nobody can prove how the first cell appeared on earth.
Plus, there were no intermediate creatures as an evolution link between different species.

Every species on earth appeared (was created) suddenly just as Adam appeared on earth suddenly after God created him..
And there are creatures still the same as they were millions years ago, like dragonfly for example.. Why didn't they evolute over time ?!

I'm wondering.. Why people believe a very ridiculous idea which is evolution, and do not believe the more reasonable idea of being created by God ?!
Why always anything concerning God is being rejected ?!
I see that it's some sort of arrogance in human being over time, although he is so weak, and he will find out how weak he is when he stands with complete silence in front of his creator.

do you believe that the god of the Christians, Jews and Muslims is the one and the same, or are we talking 2 false gods (the Christian and Jewish one) and one true god (Allah)?

Yes, the God of Moses, Jesus and Muhammad and all the prophets (Peace be upon them) is the one and the same.
He is the one who sent all the prophets and he has no partner nor son nor wife. If the current Christians and Jewish also believe that, then, we all now worship The same God.

If it's the same one, then can you tell me why he dictated different sets of rules for these 3 religions?

I said that in my previous posts.
And this is just my opinion because I'm not qualified to answer those questions in details of religions, as this is not my job

Every nation had their own circumstances because they live in different times with different means of living, and God sees that, so he sent the prophets to them with sets of rules that coincide with their lives and also are easy for them to apply.. i.e. not impossible.

But if you think about the most important thing in all religions, you'll see that God wants us to worship him alone without partners.. This is the same in all religions, and the difference is in the other minor things in life details, habits and so on.

Those who ask us to believe based on faith - regardless of their religion - do not have to substantiate their claims scientifically.

I proved that God exists scientifically in the previous long post about creation of the universe.
Plus, review history of prophets and their evil nations and see how their ending was.. This is also a proof that God exists who punishes who are arrogant to worship him.
I knew Allah by the Qur'an and by what they told me, but I become sure about his existence by science, reading and deep impartial thinking, not by telling me so. And also by putting me in the place that I might be the wrong one and others may be right, and measuring different matters and judging them to reach the most impartial right result.

Another thing I have a big problem with - why does god want to be worshipped? If so then he's an egotistical, narcissistic megalomaniac

Note that God is not a man like us, so don't apply our rules on him.
He is not a man who asks you to worship him. Then he would be like what you said.
But he created you.. i.e. you were nothing before he created you. So, whatever you did, you can't repay him for this one thing. But he just wants you to obey his rules.
If you don't accept that, think impartially.. Don't you see that you are the one who is too egotistical to accept your creator's rules. Isn't it possible that you may be wrong ?!
(I'm talking in general, not meaning you (humbert) specifically).

Again I'm telling my own way of thinking and my own point of view, nothing else.

Changing the topic - Ahmad, is that your picture? If so, you look like Hozni.

Yes, this is me.

[humbert]

Ahmad -> suffice I to say I disagree with you, but hey, we're friends and friends respect each other beliefs!    My post was not to start a debate, but rather so you'll how how I think in the same way I know what you think. See?

[Ahmad]

Believe or not..
I swear I was preparing myself to say the same thing today.
I totally agree with you, specially in this precious part:

we're friends and friends respect each other beliefs! 

Thanks, my dear friend

[scarface]

Ahmad told us that man was created by god and that he believed than man was superior to all other creatures. Well, Ahmad is not a half-believer and what he says is just was he has read in the sacred texts and I'm not here to say that it's true or false.
Anyway I'm going to give my own opinion, and you know that I'm a freethinker and that I'm not influenced by any text.
First I think that man is not superior to anything. A baboon is as precious as a Man whether it is created by God or not.
Hundreds of years ago, Man was living in accordance with nature. And nature was precious. That's why the divinities of Egypt had heads of birds, crocodiles or monkeys. These animals were not only part of tales but they were also part of the lives of the people.
Today and with the rise of the religions as we know them, these icons have disappeared. By the way our religions are iconoclast: God is not pictured.
Therefore, all of us think that God is ideal and that he's somehow the father of humanity, putting aside the other species, but I think it's only a false representation of God.
Second point, Ahmad told us that Man was created by God.
Well I can only notice that Man is the only specie which is a predator for practically all the others, but for himself too. Have you even seen a baboon coolly killing another baboon? The 19th century has showed things that couldn't have been tolerated by a protective God. And we have to wonder if there is not something demonic in each man. Therefore if God has created every specie, is this true for Man too, and is this a mistake of God?


The devil vs Jesus

[iih]

wow, so interesting this thread, just move on

[humbert]

interested,, but i think it will be deleted or closed.

That'll happen only if a viscious debate comes about. All we're doing is discussing and expressing each other's convictions so we can learn about each other. Nobody's trying to impose their beliefs on anyone.

A debate and a discussion are very different things.