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Started by Maher, January 28, 2011, 05:43 PM

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Ahmad

#90
Hello Mr. Humb25,  :)

Quotewhy do they even label themselves as the "Islamic Party"
Actually they are now under an ordinary name as a political party. One is called "Freedom and Justice" and the other is called "The Light".
But people knew them before and called them "Islamic" as those people want Islamic instructions to be applied as the solution to better life.
To let you know, these instructions are not only in religion like pray ...etc
They are in every field of life and can organize our life perfectly but only if we apply them in justly balanced way as they are. And I think we do as we have "Al Azhar" which is the oldest and biggest Islamic Foundation in the world that are full of great Islamic scientists (and also in other fields) who teach a lot of people around the world.

Quotenot all Islamic (or Jewish, Christian, etc) leaders follow the tenets of their religion.
I know that nobody is perfect except "Prophets" (peace be upon them all)
and some must do wrong sometimes. Others have to help them if they are right and correct them if they are wrong. We must do our best. It's not an easy process.

QuoteOh, by the way -- what city do you live in? If I don't know where it is, I'll find it on Google Maps. I'm in San Antonio in the American state of Texas.
I'm from El-Mahalla El-Kubra, Al Gharbiyah, Egypt.   (or Al Mahalla Al Kubra written with "El" or "Al" according to the way you pronounce it)

Be well and safe.  :)
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

Lovenitt


humbert

Quote from: Ahmad on January 09, 2012, 11:35 AM
But people knew them before and called them "Islamic" as those people want Islamic instructions to be applied as the solution to better life.
To let you know, these instructions are not only in religion like pray ...etc
They are in every field of life and can organize our life perfectly but only if we apply them in justly balanced way as they are. And I think we do as we have "Al Azhar" which is the oldest and biggest Islamic Foundation in the world that are full of great Islamic scientists (and also in other fields) who teach a lot of people around the world.

Certainly I have no problem with the fact that their religion is Islam. Based on what you're telling me, though (and correct me if I'm wrong), they want Islam not only to be in religion and prayer, but as part of Egyptian law. If this is truly the case, then I must disagree. I firmly believe in strict separation of Church (or Mosque in the case) and State. The only way to insure that the rights of all are protected is to have a pluralistic society where everyone has the right to freely do as they please (without harming others, of course), and to freely practice any religion they choose, or for that matter, not to practice any if they so decide. History has proven time and time again that any church-state union leads to big trouble and to the elimination of the basic rights of those who disagree. Please tell me I'm mistaken.

Quote from: Ahmad on January 09, 2012, 11:35 AM
I'm from El-Mahalla El-Kubra, Al Gharbiyah, Egypt.   (or Al Mahalla Al Kubra written with "El" or "Al" according to the way you pronounce it)

I found your city on the map. You're about 100 km north of Cairo. During the Jan 25 revolution, did they have protests there too or were they confined mostly to the Capital?

Take good care,
Humbert

Ahmad

#93
Quote from: humb25 on January 12, 2012, 07:05 AM
Certainly I have no problem with the fact that their religion is Islam. Based on what you're telling me, though (and correct me if I'm wrong), they want Islam not only to be in religion and prayer, but as part of Egyptian law. If this is truly the case, then I must disagree.
Hello Humbert:)
They want Islam instructions to be applied in people's manners before Egyptian law, as what lead us to this is stealing and generally bad manners.
Actually, it is a big name "Islam be applied" and I can't tell you all about it as it contains a lot of policy, treatments and situations and I don't know well about it as this is Islam scientists business.
But I'm sure that all will have equal rights and what you have said is going to happen better than before:
Quoteeveryone has the right to freely do as they please (without harming others, of course), and to freely practice any religion they choose, or for that matter, not to practice any if they so decide.
Because it is in the heart of Islam.
However, the high priority now is to enhance people's life especially poor people and how to apply social equality as to let you know,
Some people earn about 500,000 LE monthly and others earn from 500 to 2000 LE monthly and believe or not some are below that. Also, believe or not, some don't earn anything and don't live a human life !!
This is what concerns people of the council now. (A human comfortable life)
Generally, nearly half the council are Islamic and the other half from other parties.
I think it's good to represent all people's demands.
Regarding other countries, really I don't know about their law and how they apply it. But I'm sure if we apply what Islam calls for (in justly balanced way as it is), we will be great and everyone (Muslim or not) will be happy.
Actually, everything that one thinks it is good for people, I hear something like that in Islam.
QuoteHistory has proven time and time again that any church-state union leads to big trouble and to the elimination of the basic rights of those who disagree
No no !! we will never be like this. No mosque will rule and all will be equal. We just want good manners, justice, honest men for power and eventually better life.
QuoteDuring the Jan 25 revolution, did they have protests there too or were they confined mostly to the Capital?
Actually, my city started it about 3 years ago. We had great protests here all over the city but unfortunately, it wasn't all over the country. No other cities participated, so the government succeeded then. And some people were in prison since then. In 25 Jan, revolution was everywhere. Nobody could stop it.

Finally, I'm happy to have you as a wise friend.
Be well and safe. :)
Just for your knowledge, most people write my name "Ahmed", but
as we pronounce it in Arabic, it should be "Ahmad".... Never mind.  ???
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

humbert

Quote from: Ahmad on January 12, 2012, 01:07 PM
Hello Humbert:)
They want Islam instructions to be applied in people's manners before Egyptian law, as what lead us to this is stealing and generally bad manners.
Actually, it is a big name "Islam be applied" and I can't tell you all about it as it contains a lot of policy, treatments and situations and I don't know well about it as this is Islam scientists business.
But I'm sure that all will have equal rights and what you have said is going to happen better than before:
everyone has the right to freely do as they please (without harming others, of course), and to freely practice any religion they choose, or for that matter, not to practice any if they so decide.

I'm glad you named me correctly in your post  :)

It is not necessary to be Islamic to have a government that respects the rights of everyone and at the same time acts to control negative behavior. What I don't believe in is laws that [for example] would force women to wear veils or prohibit the sale of alcoholic beverages. If an islamic woman wants to wear a veil, it's her right -- but not because there is a law that says she must do so. Similarly, I agree with punishing crimes that involve alcohol. However, those of us who every now and then might drink 1 or 2 beers or glasses of wine and in the process harm no one should be left alone and respected. Also, keep in mind that not all "Islamic scientists" think alike, Egypt needs those will who do as you say.

Quote from: Ahmad on January 12, 2012, 01:07 PM
Because it is in the heart of Islam.
However, the high priority now is to enhance people's life especially poor people and how to apply social equality as to let you know,
Some people earn about 500,000 LE monthly and others earn from 500 to 2000 LE monthly and believe or not some are below that. Also, believe or not, some don't earn anything and don't live a human life !!
This is what concerns people of the council now. (A human comfortable life)
Generally, nearly half the council are Islamic and the other half from other parties.
I think it's good to represent all people's demands.
Regarding other countries, really I don't know about their law and how they apply it. But I'm sure if we apply what Islam calls for (in justly balanced way as it is), we will be great and everyone (Muslim or not) will be happy.
Actually, everything that one thinks it is good for people, I hear something like that in Islam.

I certainly hope you're right and that those people will follow their promises and do as you say!

Quote from: Ahmad on January 12, 2012, 01:07 PM
Finally, I'm happy to have you as a wise friend.
Be well and safe. :)
Just for your knowledge, most people write my name "Ahmed", but
as we pronounce it in Arabic, it should be "Ahmad".... Never mind.  ???

Thank you very much. I feel the same way about you. I'm also glad you gave me the correct pronunciation of your name. This becomes more difficult when you're in a situation where a different alphabet is involved. I was always telling Maher that one thing I envy about him is the fact that the 3 languages he's fluent in involve 3 different alphabets. I'm stuck because in both English and my native Spanish the Latin alphabet is used, so this is all I can read or write. :(

Ahmad

#95
Hello Humbert,  :)
I hope you are well and safe.

Quote from: humb25 on January 16, 2012, 04:59 AM
It is not necessary to be Islamic to have a government that respects the rights of everyone and at the same time acts to control negative behavior.
I'm fully with you about this and I told you before that we didn't choose those people because they are under the name of Islam, but because they are better and honest. Most of the others (not all) want the power for personal benefits not for the country. In my city, some have succeeded and they don't belong to any party but because they are good so people have chosen them. So, we don't have a problem about this. We want good people (any party)

Quote from: humb25 on January 16, 2012, 04:59 AM
What I don't believe in is laws that [for example] would force women to wear veils or prohibit the sale of alcoholic beverages. If an islamic woman wants to wear a veil, it's her right -- but not because there is a law that says she must do so......
- Believe me, there are not and won't be any law about this. There is difference between Sharia and what is imposed as a law. To be clear, some things are between the one and his creator. No one else can force him to do these things or not to do. But all of us know what Allah ordered us to do and not to do. So, it's the one's choice.

- Believe me also, nobody here are talking about such things except who don't know well about Islam and law in Islam. They are supposed to talk about what is going to happen in Economy, Industry, Education and so on not such things. (This is what I heard from Islamic parties)
- For your knowledge, There will be a committee of people from all parties. This committee is responsible for imposing the law. No one will force other to do anything as I told before.

- Believe me also that the main purpose of our open-minded religion is to provide a good life for people not to wait for them to sin to punish them. (Punishment is the last thing in Islam and forgiveness has higher priority as long as the right of others won't be lost).
I know media is the cause. Also, If someone is related to Islam or any religion doesn't make the correct thing in a thing, it doesn't mean that the religion is like him. This one just understands wrong about his religion. Unfortunately, media has made the picture of Islam and Muslims like those ones !!!

- When I told you about Islam scientists, I meant scientists and professors of university of "Al-Azhar" (The biggest foundation teaching Islam in the world). Those professors don't belong to any party. They have studied about Islam in "Al-Azhar" in justly balanced way since they were young and become professors. So they know better than anyone about Islam. No one of them is related by anyway to policy and no one of them want power.
I meant those professors when I told you about (Islam be applied is such a big phrase as I can't tell you well about it as it's very complex and it's those professors business)

Because we take our religion not only from "Al-Qur'an Al-Kareem" but also from what happened with our prophet "Muhammad" (Peace be upon him and all prophets)
What did he say? what did he do when something happen? How did he deal with something?
Why did he deal with something in a different way from the same one before it? What was the difference in circumstances then? ... and so on.
So, it's not like what you hear or know from media. We are very open-minded and have everything in Islam that make our life very good but only if we do it. (Not only do and don't do but also situations and wisdom to deal with events)

Finally, I didn't mean you by my words but I know what is being said about Islam in media and I was trying to make it clear for you to understand right about us.  :)

I wish you all the best, my friend.  :)
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

humbert

Quote from: Ahmad on January 16, 2012, 08:32 PM
Because we take our religion not only from "Al-Qur'an Al-Kareem" but also from what happened with our prophet "Muhammad" (Peace be upon him and all prophets)
What did he say? what did he do when something happen? How did he deal with something?
Why did he deal with something in a different way from the same one before it? What was the difference in circumstances then? ... and so on.
So, it's not like what you hear or know from media. We are very open-minded and have everything in Islam that make our life very good but only if we do it. (Not only do and don't do but also situations and wisdom to deal with events)
Finally, I didn't mean you by my words but I know what is being said about Islam in media and I was trying to make it clear for you to understand right about us.  :)
I wish you all the best, my friend.  :)

Hello Ahmad! Thanks for the information.

I'm quoting a small part of your message because it pretty much says it all. Basically it is the fact that Islam is a religion of peace and respect and the news media always exaggerates and tells lies and half-truths. There is also an old saying, "the rightgeous always pay the sinners' wages". This happens not only in Islam but in all religions, nationalities, ethnic groups, etc. Bad people of all persuasions always make the news precisely because they cause trouble, so the media reports it with huge headlines and implies that everyone in that group is the same, which is far from true. I'm glad that the people who have a good chance of winning the elections are idealists who want only to create an Egyptian government whose job is to defend people's rights as opposed to taking them away and to help the poor and disadvantaged lead a better life. It's too bad that in many parts of the world (certainly not just the Arab world) there are dictators who care nothing about their people and will do whatever it takes to stay in power and enrich themselves regardless of whether or not their people even have food to eat. I could sit here and name example after example, and of course I don't mean in history, I mean today! Hopefully they will all be overthrown by the their people who have simply had enough of this abuse.

Take good care, dear friend, and keep writing  :)

Ahmad

Hello my wise friend "Humbert",  :D
I hope you are well. I'm very happy with your words and feelings.

Quote from: humb25 on January 18, 2012, 05:16 AM
I'm glad that the people who have a good chance of winning the elections are idealists who want only to create an Egyptian government whose job is to defend people's rights as opposed to taking them away and to help the poor and disadvantaged lead a better life.
I hope they do their best to do so.

I don't know what to say for now as there is no updates, but I can say that I really appreciate that you share others their problems and try to help. You are really a good man and I wish you and all who you care for all the best.
Be always well and safe.  :)
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

humbert

Quote from: Ahmad on January 18, 2012, 08:31 AM
Hello my wise friend "Humbert",  :D
I hope you are well. I'm very happy with your words and feelings.
I'm glad that the people who have a good chance of winning the elections are idealists who want only to create an Egyptian government whose job is to defend people's rights as opposed to taking them away and to help the poor and disadvantaged lead a better life.
I hope they do their best to do so.

Keep in mind that my anxieties about "Islamic parties" in Egypt are based on my country's history. When Fidel Castro came to power in Cuba, one reason he was so popular at first was he managed to convince everyone, even the State Department in Washington, that he was an idealist who's only concern was to rid the country of the previous leadership and bring my people the very best in every regard. He even said he was strongly anti-Communist! After about a year he began to show his true colors and ended up becoming the country's worst dictator in its history. It's important to emphasize that in no way am I saying a similar thing will happen in Egypt, remember we're talking about 2 very different countries with 2 very different cultures. I just know that almost nobody learns the lessons of history.

Quote from: Ahmad on January 18, 2012, 08:31 AM
I don't know what to say for now as there is no updates, but I can say that I really appreciate that you share others their problems and try to help. You are really a good man and I wish you and all who you care for all the best.
Be always well and safe.  :)

As they say here in America "flattery will get you everywhere" :). Thanks for the compliments. I've always liked to learn as much as possible and to teach people to help themselves. Everything I learn shows me how little I really know. And of course, I help people because when I'm in need, I'd love it when someone helps me. I also like the idea of having people such as yourself and Maher as personal friends. Both of you are not only intelligent but very open minded as well.

Be safe,
Humbert

azlooker

Hello all,
I signed up just to tell Maher what a great great job.
I can't thank you enough!! ;D ;D