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Maths & statistics exercises / French and English lessons

Started by scarface, June 16, 2013, 11:58 PM

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Daniil

Quote from: humbert on November 15, 2022, 04:14 AMMostly I was referring to the fact that, unless I'm mistaken, the Russian language is very phonetic.

Yes, that's correct. We have a lot of difficulties with suffixes and endings of words. You probably understand already that in Russian endings of a verb in sentence changing relatively to sex of subject of sentence (for example, in English "He did ..." and "She did ...", but in Russian "Он делал ..." and "Она делала ...").  But in case of writing, we never have such stupid things as in English (for example, like in an old joke, when "write Liverpool, but pronounce as Manchester"  ;D ).

BTW, as far as I can understand, English which we learn from official textbooks and real everyday English speaking is very different. Is that correct? I tried to learn US urban slang and found it really funny and interesting for me. 'coz, y'know, it's helluva diff cases! ;D  ;D  ;D

humbert

Quote from: Daniil on November 15, 2022, 07:12 PMYes, that's correct. We have a lot of difficulties with suffixes and endings of words. You probably understand already that in Russian endings of a verb in sentence changing relatively to sex of subject of sentence (for example, in English "He did ..." and "She did ...", but in Russian "Он делал ..." and "Она делала ...").  But in case of writing, we never have such stupid things as in English (for example, like in an old joke, when "write Liverpool, but pronounce as Manchester"  ;D ).

The romance languages are like that too. They're very genderized. Even inanimate objects have genders. For example, in Spanish "la calle" (the street) is a feminine noun, so the article is la. However, "el camino" (the road) is a masculine noun, so the article is el. After having some knowledge of the language you learn which is which. BTW, I'm noticing that in Russia married women take their husband's name and add an A at the end. Putin's wife's last name is Putina. Is that how the Russian naming sysem for wives works?

In Russian I don't understand the difference between Ш and Щ. I also have some trouble understanding what the hard and soft signs Ъ and Ь are used for, and with the letter yeru Ы. The other letters I more or less understand. For example, unless I'm wrong you wrote "ona delal" and "ona delala".

How do you say "you" in Russian? By this I mean is there a higher and lower version depending on who you're speaking to? In Spanish there is usted (the higher) and tu (the lower). In French is vous and tous respectively. Is there something like that in Russian?

Quote from: Daniil on November 15, 2022, 07:12 PMBTW, as far as I can understand, English which we learn from official textbooks and real everyday English speaking is very different. Is that correct? I tried to learn US urban slang and found it really funny and interesting for me. 'coz, y'know, it's helluva diff cases! ;D  ;D  ;D

All this is essentially American slang. They even gave it a more phonetic spelling not found in any dictionary. Remember there is no central authority for the language. If you ever travelled to the United Kingdom and then to America, you'd notice many signs are spelled differently. American is more phonetic.

And of course never forget that the reason English is so important in the world today is because as recently as 100 years ago the sun never set on the British Empire. Add to this the fact that at that time America started to become a world power by itself. Unlike the British, they didn't export English by force. They did it culturally through cinema and other similar waya.

scarface

Since nobody was able to solve the math exercise I proposed a few weeks ago, you'll find the solution here:
https://www.nomaher.com/forum/index.php?topic=1110.msg37965#msg37965

Daniil

Quote from: humbert on November 16, 2022, 05:09 AMThe romance languages are like that too. They're very genderized. Even inanimate objects have genders. For example, in Spanish "la calle" (the street) is a feminine noun, so the article is la. However, "el camino" (the road) is a masculine noun, so the article is el. After having some knowledge of the language you learn which is which.
Yep, that's very close to gendering in Russian. We just doesn't use an articles - gender is implied in the word itself.

Quote from: humbert on November 16, 2022, 05:09 AMBTW, I'm noticing that in Russia married women take their husband's name and add an A at the end. Putin's wife's last name is Putina. Is that how the Russian naming sysem for wives works?
Almost correct. Russian name system containing 3 parts. First name is the name (for ex., Vladimir), second name is "family" name (for ex., Putin), and also there is "father's name" (for ex. Vladimirovich). Official appeal is first name and second name - in case of Putin it would be "Vladimir Putin", like in news. If you want to show respect to other, you can appeal to him with first name and "father's name". In case of Putin it'd be "Vladimir Vladimirovich" like in different political TV shows when different toadies speaks to him. Married woman takes her husband second name (same as in English/US custom), but taken name in that case would be converted to female gender. Also, there is a lot of exceptions. ;D

I need to mention about gender in russian language. Our nouns have gender "by default". If we need to show different gender for a noun, we use different noun (or changing it in a way allowed it to sounds feminine). Our adjectives changing with gender by more rigid rules, but by same principe. In our verbs we are changing only finishings, but also by same principe. That's, in a bird-eye view, how it works.

Quote from: humbert on November 16, 2022, 05:09 AMIn Russian I don't understand the difference between Ш and Щ. I also have some trouble understanding what the hard and soft signs Ъ and Ь are used for, and with the letter yeru Ы. The other letters I more or less understand. For example, unless I'm wrong you wrote "ona delal" and "ona delala".
Difference between Ш and Щ is simple - first pronounced as "sh", second as "sch". With hard ans soft signs it's a bit more complicated. Soft sign means higher tone of pronunciation (something as tones in Japanese or Chinese lang), hard sign vise versa. Pronunciation of Ы I can't explain to English-speakers, because there is nothing  like this in English. Try to think about it as an "'ee" - long e with apostrophe.

Quote from: humbert on November 16, 2022, 05:09 AMHow do you say "you" in Russian? By this I mean is there a higher and lower version depending on who you're speaking to? In Spanish there is usted (the higher) and tu (the lower). In French is vous and tous respectively. Is there something like that in Russian?
In Russian is exactly same thing as in French and in Spanish, moreover, even the words are sounds likely. Higher form is "вы", lower form is "ты".

Quote from: humbert on November 16, 2022, 05:09 AMAll this is essentially American slang. They even gave it a more phonetic spelling not found in any dictionary. Remember there is no central authority for the language. If you ever travelled to the United Kingdom and then to America, you'd notice many signs are spelled differently. American is more phonetic.
That's why I like it. Slang is a mirror of real, inofficial culture, it shows lives of the people. How heavily US slang differs from region to region? And how heavily it changed, for example, since 80's?

Shadow.97

Regarding school english and real english. The difference is massive, it will get you around plenty, but there is always localised differences that you have to just learn.
For example, Bunda(big butt) is used in the UK but not really in Ireland or America to my understanding. Wasnt aware of the word until I visited some month back.

It takes some getting used to local dialects. I've heard people with similar to this:
https://youtu.be/pj705DvCSxg
And when they speak fast and others nearby are talking at the same time. It's hard to understand. Especially if you dont know the topic well.

humbert

Quote from: Daniil on November 21, 2022, 03:38 PMYep, that's very close to gendering in Russian. We just doesn't use an articles - gender is implied in the word itself.

When you say there are no articles, do you mean that if in English you say "This is the street", in Russian you'd say "This is street"? In this case the is the article.

Quote from: Daniil on November 21, 2022, 03:38 PMIn case of Putin it'd be "Vladimir Vladimirovich" like in different political TV shows when different toadies speaks to him.

I always wondered why on TV interviews, the reporter always called Gorbachev "Mikhail Sergeievitch". Now I know.  :)

Quote from: Daniil on November 21, 2022, 03:38 PMDifference between Ш and Щ is simple - first pronounced as "sh", second as "sch". With hard ans soft signs it's a bit more complicated. Soft sign means higher tone of pronunciation (something as tones in Japanese or Chinese lang), hard sign vise versa. Pronunciation of Ы I can't explain to English-speakers, because there is nothing  like this in English. Try to think about it as an "'ee" - long e with apostrophe.

I'm going to Google translate and checking the pronunciation. Now I understand. Thanks.

Quote from: Daniil on November 21, 2022, 03:38 PMSlang is a mirror of real, inofficial culture, it shows lives of the people. How heavily US slang differs from region to region? And how heavily it changed, for example, since 80's

There are subtle differences in spoken accents from region to region. For example, someone from New York speaks with different accent than someone from Atlanta. There is also some slightly different slang. Due to the fact that the world is hypercommunicated and there is easy travel from one place to the next, every day these differences grow less and less every day.

Daniil

Quote from: humbert on November 22, 2022, 06:18 AMWhen you say there are no articles, do you mean that if in English you say "This is the street", in Russian you'd say "This is street"? In this case the is the article.
Yes, like this. Also, we don't use "is" in this case. So, in Russian "This is the street" will be "Это улица" (Literally "This - street"). "Is" ("есть") is an old form, used in very ceremonial sentences like "Запуск первого искусственного спутника есть великое достижение cоветского народа" ("Launch of a first artificial satellite is a great achivement of soviet people").

Quote from: humbert on November 22, 2022, 06:18 AMThere are subtle differences in spoken accents from region to region. For example, someone from New York speaks with different accent than someone from Atlanta. There is also some slightly different slang. Due to the fact that the world is hypercommunicated and there is easy travel from one place to the next, every day these differences grow less and less every day.
Oh, that's very interesting! Is that easy to determine from where the person is, by his accent? For example, what's typical for new-yorkers? I hear that in NYC slang there is a lot of italian, jewish and russian forms.

Quote from: Shadow.97 on November 21, 2022, 07:10 PMIt takes some getting used to local dialects. I've heard people with similar to this:
https://youtu.be/pj705DvCSxg
Yep, that brat sounds very funny with his Irish accent. ;D

humbert

Quote from: Daniil on November 22, 2022, 12:07 PMOh, that's very interesting! Is that easy to determine from where the person is, by his accent? For example, what's typical for new-yorkers? I hear that in NYC slang there is a lot of italian, jewish and russian forms.

All these people essentially blended into one, liguistically speaking. It is the New York accent. Also, not all parts of this country have accent. Most have the generic American English you hear people speaking. Still, it's not too hard to hear a New Yorker, a Southerner, and a Californian and tell who's who. Also, by "Southerner" I specifically mean American states of Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi where the accent is most pronounced. I should also mention that black Americans also speak with their own accent.

Is that the case in Russia? Does someone from [for example] St Petersburg speak a little different than someone from Moscow? I would guess that faraway Siberia must have different accents too.


scarface

Hi,
I just received a message from Daniil, and I thought it would be useful to share it in case other users have a similar problem:
This message was: "I've got a trouble on posting on our forum - I can't add a message into topic "Maths & statistics exercises / French and English lessons". Forum returns me Error 403 - forbidden to execute action."
Actually I never had trouble posting new message. However, I encountered a similar message when I tried to modify old messages. But it only appeared a few times. It must be a bug with SMF not being able to remove "unknown characters".
In fact, I found this message on SMF:
https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=575211.msg4070841#msg4070841, you may use weird characters that are not correctly handled.

Daniil

Quote from: scarface on November 24, 2022, 07:54 PMActually I never had trouble posting new message. However, I encountered a similar message when I tried to modify old messages. But it only appeared a few times. It must be a bug with SMF not being able to remove "unknown characters".
Well, let's check. Probably, there is a trouble with some characters. I'll reformulate message I wanted to post with other words.

Upd: WORKING!!! :))

Upd2: Message with my answer to mr.Humbert throwing an error 403 only in case when I tried to add there words "as people from Moscow". Very strange glitch.