Elections in Egypt

[humbert]

Hey Ahmad,

I had been meaning to ask you -- did you vote in the recent Egyptian elections? I've heard there's a run-off now between one of Mubarak's former henchmen and an "Islamist" (according to the news media), because nobody got a clear majority.

Tell me more.

[Ahmad]

Hey Ahmad,

I had been meaning to ask you -- did you vote in the recent Egyptian elections? I've heard there's a run-off now between one of Mubarak's former henchmen and an "Islamist" (according to the news media), because nobody got a clear majority.

Tell me more.

Yeah, dear.
I voted, BUT most of the Egyptians are not happy with this end. 

I voted for an independent one who doesn't belong to any party. He is very good. Also, there is another good independent one. Each of them had  %20.

The Islamist one, and the other one of Mubarak.. Each of them had  %25, so they will enter the second phase of elections.

Most people doesn't want both of them, and for that, they are not happy.
What makes me mad is that how the guy of Mubarak got  %25 !! 
Who voted for him !!     I can't get that !!

Some people including me will vote for the Islamist one just to keep the other away, but this doesn't mean we want the Islamist.
Others will vote for the other one because they don't want the Islamist one.

So, we are greatly confused, and I'm afraid of another mess in the country.

Take care.

[humbert]

Yeah, dear.
I voted, BUT most of the Egyptians are not happy with this end. 
I voted for an independent one who doesn't belong to any party. He is very good. Also, there is another good independent one. Each of them had  %20.

This sort of thing usually happens when a situation exists where there are many political parties on the ballot. Even if some candidates are close when it comes to the issues, they don't get together to prevent this kinds of fractionalization

The Islamist one, and the other one of Mubarak.. Each of them had  %25, so they will enter the second phase of elections.
Most people doesn't want both of them, and for that, they are not happy.
What makes me mad is that how the guy of Mubarak got  %25 !! 
Who voted for him !!     I can't get that !!

Regarding Hosni's former henchman, forget what he did in the past - the question is, what has he promised to do if elected. One thing is certain -- there is no way this guy can become another Mubarak, nor will he even be in a position to unleash the army against protesters. As for the Islamists, what are they promising? If indeed Egypt now has a constitution, I don't see how this guy can turn it into another Saudi Arabia or Iran. There are simply too many people who oppose such a thing. What are they saying in their campaigns?

Some people including me will vote for the Islamist one just to keep the other away, but this doesn't mean we want the Islamist.
Others will vote for the other one because they don't want the Islamist one.

This is known as the "anti-vote" and is seen practically everywhere. In other words, you're not voting for one guy, you're actually voting against the other guy. In every election I've seen, candidates often do nothing more than tell us how bad the other guy is, without even explaining why they'd be the better choice.

So, we are greatly confused, and I'm afraid of another mess in the country.

Sadly, this is very common in countries that have been ruled by dictators. It all boils down to the fact that for many years, people have just been told what to do and never given an opportunity to govern themselves. Sadly, this sort of thing is endemic and happens just about everywhere. Just to give you an idea, in Syria I am more afraid of what will happen the day Bashar is finally gone as opposed to what's going on right now.

Take care.

[Ahmad]

Regarding Hosni's former henchman, forget what he did in the past - the question is, what has he promised to do if elected. One thing is certain -- there is no way this guy can become another Mubarak, nor will he even be in a position to unleash the army against protesters. As for the Islamists, what are they promising? If indeed Egypt now has a constitution, I don't see how this guy can turn it into another Saudi Arabia or Iran. There are simply too many people who oppose such a thing. What are they saying in their campaigns?

No no, dear.
I wish it was like that.
All people here know the close relationship between Mubarak and him, and know that he entered the election just for Mubarak and his system. Even, he has some cases which the court haven't judged in them, yet and we don't know how he entered the elections before these cases are closed !!  It's illegal.

The other thing is that he didn't say a specific plan for the country.. All are general talk.

On the other side, the Islamist one is from the balanced party not from the other. So, don't worry..  We won't be another Saudi Arabia.
Also I heard from him about Women's dressing, it's a matter between her and her God. Also regarding work.. if there is a competition between a man and a woman, the better will be hired.

Regarding his promises..
First, he will become independent from his party. But he will execute their project of progress which is a specific plan for progress in every field written in 14,000 papers.

Actually, those people are very good and organized, and for me, they will be good.
But I wanted a president from the ordinary people just to make everybody happy with him.
But now, some people here are afraid of them because of what they hear about them... As you know, it's just talking to make people afraid of them specially people who don't read or try to know about them. They are easy to be deceived.

I'm sure we won't be Saudi Arabia, and I heard from him about all things that people are afraid of. He is just like others who seeks progress for the country. Even he becomes angry when people ask him just about those known issues like women's dressing ...etc.
He says, why not asking about the important things like economy, industry ... etc.

BTW, he is from the party that I voted for during the past elections of the council. BUT, I didn't want them to introduce a candidate to be a president as they said before, and this was the biggest mistake they ever did. Yet, what can we do now?
At least, he is better than the other one of Mubarak. And no way to vote for another Mubarak playing a dirty game on the people !!

Take care. 

[humbert]

No no, dear.
I wish it was like that.
All people here know the close relationship between Mubarak and him, and know that he entered the election just for Mubarak and his system. Even, he has some cases which the court haven't judged in them, yet and we don't know how he entered the elections before these cases are closed !!  It's illegal.

Has he been officially indicted already or is it all talk? I heard this morning on the BBC that Hosni is now under arrest and awaiting trial. Some Egyptians are even wanting the death penalty.

The other thing is that he didn't say a specific plan for the country.. All are general talk.

Like you said, if the guy has no agenda to present to the people for improving the nation, I can't understand how he got so many votes -- and worse given his history.

On the other side, the Islamist one is from the balanced party not from the other. So, don't worry..  We won't be another Saudi Arabia.
Also I heard from him about Women's dressing, it's a matter between her and her God. Also regarding work.. if there is a competition between a man and a woman, the better will be hired.

This is excellent. If a woman decides to wear a veil, it should be only because of her religious convictions, and never because the Mutawah (Saudi religious police) will beat her, or some other government-related matter. And naturally, gender should never enter into the picture as a reason for hiring someone, with the possible exception of combat duty as a soldier.

First, he will become independent from his party. But he will execute their project of progress which is a specific plan for progress in every field written in 14,000 papers.
Actually, those people are very good and organized, and for me, they will be good.
But I wanted a president from the ordinary people just to make everybody happy with him.
But now, some people here are afraid of them because of what they hear about them... As you know, it's just talking to make people afraid of them specially people who don't read or try to know about them. They are easy to be deceived.

You're absolutely right. It's easy to deceive people. Politicians and government have been doing it forever. And I bet you anything Hosni's man is telling the Egyptian people all kinds of lies and dire consequences if they are elected.

I'm sure we won't be Saudi Arabia, and I heard from him about all things that people are afraid of. He is just like others who seeks progress for the country. Even he becomes angry when people ask him just about those known issues like women's dressing ...etc.
He says, why not asking about the important things like economy, industry ... etc.

May Allah hear you! Governments must stay out of how people choose to practice their religion. History has taught us that the worse butchery against people has come from those governments who claim to be religious. You think only Islam does this? Think again. What about those millions who were tortured and burned at the stake because of the Holy Inquisition in Spain many years ago?

I'll keep listening to the news and asking you stuff to see what finally happens with all this.

[Ahmad]

Has he been officially indicted already or is it all talk?

During the period when he was the minister of aviation, people who have been working with him know what he was doing but nobody could indict him then, but now they did.
Actually, this guy doesn't have such big problems and crimes like others, but he is not totally clean and 75% of Egyptians hate him and so, he can't be our president.

I heard this morning on the BBC that Hosni is now under arrest and awaiting trial. Some Egyptians are even wanting the death penalty.

Yes, he was judged 25 years in prison.
Regarding the cases of Profiteering >>> non guilty !!  him and his 2 sons  !!
Then, from where did they have all their money, palaces, lands, companies ... etc.
This is because the military council who is governing now was not straight and gave them the chance to hide every evidence making them guilty.
Everyone knows that they all were thieves but they say where is the paper proving that ?
Such silly law !!

This is excellent. If a woman decides to wear a veil, it should be only because of her religious convictions, and never because the Mutawah (Saudi religious police) will beat her, or some other government-related matter. And naturally, gender should never enter into the picture as a reason for hiring someone, with the possible exception of combat duty as a soldier.

That's right.

You're absolutely right. It's easy to deceive people. Politicians and government have been doing it forever. And I bet you anything Hosni's man is telling the Egyptian people all kinds of lies and dire consequences if they are elected.

Yes, and they use Media very well for their purposes. They are very wily.

Finally, people are very upset because many condemned people have been judged non guilty, and many of them are protesting now for that and also to rule Mubarak's man out of elections.

[humbert]

During the period when he was the minister of aviation, people who have been working with him know what he was doing but nobody could indict him then, but now they did.
Actually, this guy doesn't have such big problems and crimes like others, but he is not totally clean and 75% of Egyptians hate him and so, he can't be our president.

Clarify something for me. In America, when you are "under indictment", this means you have been formally accused of a crime and are now awaiting trial. Depending on the circumstances, you could be free on bail or in jail, all pending the outcome of the trial. Are you saying this is the man's situation? I think there's a misunderstanding.

Yes, he was judged 25 years in prison.
Regarding the cases of Profiteering >>> non guilty !!  him and his 2 sons  !!
Then, from where did they have all their money, palaces, lands, companies ... etc.
This is because the military council who is governing now was not straight and gave them the chance to hide every evidence making them guilty.
Everyone knows that they all were thieves but they say where is the paper proving that ?
Such silly law !!

Then the BBC got it wrong. This morning on the news, they said the sentence had been life imprisonment. They did say he had been acquitted of other crimes, such as corruption. Naturally I believe you. They also showed on TV big crowds of protesters at Tahrir Square complaining about the outcome and wanting the death penalty. After all, Hosni WAS found guilty of killing nearly 800 protesters and other dissidents.

What amazes me is how is it that Mubarak never left Egypt when he had the chance. This is what I don't understand about many dictators everywhere -- they would rather die fighting than leave with all the millions they stole to live like a king with all the money they embezzled. Just one example - look at Gadhafi. When the insurgents had captured both Benghazi and Tripoli (thanks to NATO and the Arab League), he was still in his native Sirte somehow believing he was still the dictator. I'm beginning to believe he still thought he was going to crush the rebellion.

Yes, and they use Media very well for their purposes. They are very wily.
Finally, people are very upset because many condemned people have been judged non guilty, and many of them are protesting now for that and also to rule Mubarak's man out of elections.

The government here is very notorious for this, not to mention that the media is part of the elite. Accordingly, most people actually believe the lies they tell. That's why there's no need for brutal repression. As for Hosni's guy, please clarify for me what I said above and I'll tell you more, I don't live to give opinions unless I have facts to back them up. 

[Ahmad]

Clarify something for me. In America, when you are "under indictment", this means you have been formally accused of a crime and are now awaiting trial. Depending on the circumstances, you could be free on bail or in jail, all pending the outcome of the trial. Are you saying this is the man's situation? I think there's a misunderstanding.

What I mean is that he is accused of a crime and he could be free if he managed to hide evidences like others.
But who worked with him say now that he gave orders to build new passageways for planes in airports without any need for them. They know what is going behind these orders... He says it will cost 100 millions for example, he pays 70 and keeps the rest for himself and all partners... All thieves of the government do the same here.

So most of this guy's crimes will be like this.
Who knows, some people say he shared in the killing orders, but no evidences for that.

Then the BBC got it wrong. This morning on the news, they said the sentence had been life imprisonment. They did say he had been acquitted of other crimes, such as corruption. Naturally I believe you. They also showed on TV big crowds of protesters at Tahrir Square complaining about the outcome and wanting the death penalty. After all, Hosni WAS found guilty of killing nearly 800 protesters and other dissidents.

Here, 25 years in prison means life imprisonment.
He and all his partners gave orders to kill about 1200 protesters and injured thousands [specially in the eye] in Tahrir 25 Jan.
How on the earth some of them become free now without any guilt ?!!
And the others who have been indicted, why don't they be killed like what they did ?!!

I trust the judge, he can't say someone is guilty without evidences.. And these evidences were hidden and burnt at the beginning of rebellion.
So people now become very angry specially who had a son killed in the rebellion, he know that those people killed his son but he can't do anything to indict them.

[Maher]

Excuse me guys, I didn't even read the whole conversation.
But I said it, and will always repeat it Ahmad, after all this, people will be dreaming for the time of Mubarak to come back!!
I'm not saying that they love him, nor I'm defending him! He deserves all this happening to him. All I'm saying is people will never feel the same as earlier!
Will never feel safe actually. Don't know how to explain it more, but I hope you got my point.

Changes are not made this way, read the verse in Quran where Allah says:
"إن الله لا يغير ما بقوم حتى يغيروا ما بأنفسهم"
Allah does not change a people´s lot unless they change what is in their hearts.

We need to change ourselves, not only change the president!

[Ahmad]

Excuse me guys, I didn't even read the whole conversation.
But I said it, and will always repeat it Ahmad, after all this, people will be dreaming for the time of Mubarak to come back!!
I'm not saying that they love him, nor I'm defending him! He deserves all this happening to him. All I'm saying is people will never feel the same as earlier!
Will never feel safe actually. Don't know how to explain it more, but I hope you got my point.

Changes are not made this way, read the verse in Quran where Allah says:
"إن الله لا يغير ما بقوم حتى يغيروا ما بأنفسهم"
Allah does not change a people´s lot unless they change what is in their hearts.

We need to change ourselves, not only change the president!

I get your point completely & I believe in it, and this is what I'm afraid of.
Many people don't see it the way you are seeing. They are away from this understanding.
And I know that Allah won't change his words or rules, but I always ask him safety.

Thanks for support, brother.